Welcome to TVPaint Community forums !

i'm attempting to understand the xsheet in the 9.5 update of tvp. i've been looking at the manual and have become confused because it seems i have different options than the examples described. in the software the options i'm given are undefined, layer, clip, sequence. i am not given the option for project as described in the manual. i am also having trouble locating the files for the tutorial running kid with the manual's described layers. i'm attempting to become familiar with the software and unfortunately i'm a beginner and afraid of over looking something simple and asking dumb questions. but hey, i asked a dumb question once and i didn't die so i'll ask another one. what's a sequence? UPDATE. i've found how to create a sequence.

any direction will be appreciated

rich

Well, in the X sheet, the part on the left hand side is you future traditional x sheet, where you will add "x sheet layers" (and not "animation layers", as in the timeline).
You can't draw in a xsheet layer : you can only copy paste images from your bin.

The bin is on the right hand side. Here you define sources : a layer on the current project, a whole clip in the current project or an image sequence on your computer. Then, you could see all the images that defines your source. Then, you will be able to drag and drop images from your source to your xsheet.

The Xsheet tab is a little archaic (some difficults to select images etc..). We plan to update it a little in order to use it more easily

Elodie wrote: The Xsheet tab is a little archaic (some difficults to select images etc..). We plan to update it a little in order to use it more easily

I very often wonder if the X-sheet tab is not an Archaisme by itself ??…
It's purpose is to facilitate the work of the guy behind the camera ? (ain't it ?)…
… as long as you don't need a cameraman…what the use ?! (in TVP, all is done by computer… you are the cameraman, and a lot more)
Is there anything that can be done only with the X-sheet and not in the timeline ?…

Well ! I'm aware to be a bit Iconoclast and provocative, saying that ! (No ! no !… please ! not on the head !:D), but It's certainly not only there 'to make the "traditional animators feel home"… then, what does it really add to the job ?… any advantage ? ( lip synch ?)
…//…humble question of a "newbie" who's triyng very hard to understand …//…

Seriously… It would be interesting to know the opinion from real "pro" on this forum about X-sheet (and it's evolution in a close-future ?)
(If they've got time for a little answer… of course )

…merci d'avance !

I had the same point of view than you, not so far ago. And recently, some professionals told me they really need that feature in order to re-use some images in their animations. It's easier to drag and drop only one image than copy paste the lines, the color and the shadow (one image by layer). =)
Moreover, when you define a source with the xhseet, if you modify the source, the changes will be automatically done.

Thx Elodie !

Elodie wrote: It's easier to drag and drop only one image than copy paste the lines, the color and the shadow (one image by layer). =)

Maybe is it possible to get the same result in the timeline… instead of selecting only the current frame of the current layer… why not being able to select all the visible layers related to the current frame… and now, copy and move them wherever you want… ?!
(each copy staying on its relative layer)

Elodie wrote:Moreover, when you define a source with the xhseet, if you modify the source, the changes will be automatically done.

same thing… Is it imposssible to get the same result within the timeline ?

If these are the only two "plus", that X-sheet brings… it might be interesting to carry them in the timeline…
… and get rid of the old fashion X-sheet stuff … which is certainly speed and data consumer ?!

(… and looks - at a first glance - a bit like the Reminiscence of an Obsolete technology !? …It is still taught in the Schools of Art ?)

Elodie wrote:Well, in the X sheet, the part on the left hand side is you future traditional x sheet, where you will add "x sheet layers" (and not "animation layers", as in the timeline).
You can't draw in a xsheet layer : you can only copy paste images from your bin.

The bin is on the right hand side. Here you define sources : a layer on the current project, a whole clip in the current project or an image sequence on your computer. Then, you could see all the images that defines your source. Then, you will be able to drag and drop images from your source to your xsheet.

The Xsheet tab is a little archaic (some difficults to select images etc..). We plan to update it a little in order to use it more easily

hi elodie,

thanks for responding.
i've made some progress with it. it seems to be responding to me i think it's starting to like me.

thanks

chatbraque wrote:If these are the only two "plus", that X-sheet brings… it might be interesting to carry them in the timeline…
… and get rid of the old fashion X-sheet stuff … which is certainly speed and data consumer ?!

this is hitting the nail on the head.

we could still have the option for a vertical view under an xsheet tab next to normal timeline view, but it should all be one and the same layer engine and no need for a seperate x-sheet layer type.
for instance, i can imagine each frame having a unique number which is normally not displayed in timeline view but is visible in x-sheet view/mode.

First of all, the vertical, up and down orientation of the x-sheet is anachronistic in itself; it mimics the vertical feed of film in the camera, the movie projector and the old Moviola (hey! Moviola isn't even in the spell checker anymore!!). I never liked that even in my film making days because you can't write dialogue along your frames unless you are Japanese. I used bar sheets instead, which were horizontal instructions for musicians about what goes where in terms of frames... like a frame line before its time!

As far as I can tell, x-sheets are in demand by people who draw on paper outside of the software because as they draw, they need to record where each drawing is placed, where it goes when it is recycled, and how long it holds when the motion stops. True, these were instructions for the camera operators so that they could shoot the cels in the exact order the animators needed them to appear.

But even with the camera gone out of the picture, the animators would be in a mess after they scanned their drawings into TVP because now they have to replicate the original order of their drawings to be placed within the timeline -- they have to copy their paper x-sheets into TVP. So TVP lets them scan in the drawings while the animators enter each drawing's unique number. The order of those numbers are entered by the animator and the numbers turn into the drawings that came with them into the computer.

If the numbers were written in the same corner of each drawing (and they always are) can't the software read those numbers at the time it imports the drawing? Then can't the text reader part of the software read the numbers of a paper x-sheet the animators scan in before they even start scanning in their drawings? Because if this could be implemented, each drawing would instantly appear upon scanning in its proper frame of the timeline and not just that but all the frames it has been pre-written into. Don't most good scanning machines have text readers built in them these days?

OCR is a pretty tricky technology in itself. Only very few (and expensive) programs in the field can read handwritten text, even if you "print" your letters. If this is implemented, you'd still need to manually correct misread entries.

I'd be quite happy if I had some way to name individual frames - it is too cumbersome to put everything on different layers just to have it named separately.

Of course, the still unbeaten workaround is to just draw the damned pictures directly into the time line and have it over with.

slowtiger wrote:OCR is a pretty tricky technology in itself. Only very few (and expensive) programs in the field can read handwritten text, even if you "print" your letters.

Is it so certain ?… if it's only a matter of recognizing numbers (10 caracters), a mere software like "brain age" ( Nintendo DS) can do it allwright (?!)

You can't restrict animators to just use numbers - they're used to naming schemes like "B 10", "A33", "JOHN 22a", "C/122", "H-03". This means the OCR needs to use the full set of characters, upper and lower case, and punctuation. Additionally it can't use the context (a dictionary) because it doesn't deal with words.

Anyway, I think the group of potential users of this is much too small to justify the inclusion of YADT into TVP. ("yet another difficult technology")

You can't restrict animators to just use numbers

Why not? That's all I ever used.

In a studio environment this wouldn't suffice. You have to mark layers and scenes, on each sheet, otherwise chaos ensues. Of course you wouldn't need all of that once a scene is scanned in, but how would software know which part of the writing to ignore?

Layers and scenes can all be represented in numbers; 21-3-5 (image 21, layer 3, scene 5) It's the same concept as a bar code which holds much more information than this and is represented by simple bars of varying thicknesses and spaces. The entire set of numbers following the image number need appear only on the first drawing until the next change in layer or scene appears. The notations you are used to seeing and making are designed for easy communications with a second person, most often the cameraman. In this case one communicates only with oneself; not everything needs to be spelled out in its entirety.