a new concept for a drawing mode

[slowtiger]

Yesterday someone came up with a very interesting request at http://www.flipbook-online.de/viewtopic.php?p=2395. I don't request this as a soon-to-be added feature, but like to hear some opinions.

What he describes translates as follows:
Imagine having a short sequence of animation. In this sequence you'd define one empty frame, in the middle or wherever. Now the special drawing mode kicks in, which replays the sequence as a loop while you draw into the empty frame. You draw right into the movement, so to say. The contents of your drawing frame will be included in the replay immediately.

At first I didn't really understand him, but then it made sense. I don't know if something like this was ever implemented anywhere. I think it's not outside of TVP's core capabilities, but what do you think? Would it be useful at all?

[Sewie]

It seems like a nice gimmick to fool around or experiment with...

[Peter Wassink]

...You draw right into the movement, so to say. The contents of your drawing frame will be included in the replay immediately....

i love this idea.
to me it makes complete sense!
it would be like sculpting animation in real time.

you don't even need an empty frame, it can also work by pushing lines on a frame. or erasing lines and redrawing them.
or you could also start with an empty animation, building it up while its playing!
and if you make it possible to walk through the frames while the animation is playing you could adjust the spacing of the whole animation while its playing!

its taking TVP's 'CTRL animation' function one step further.
i'd say its a great request for version 10.

[ematecki]

You mean something close to what has been implemented in the 9.5 video-in panel ?

It may be interesting ! (both to use and to implement :)

[malcooning]

its taking TVP's 'CTRL animation' function one step further.
i'd say its a great request for version 10.

My thoughts exactly.
that's what I call a good evolution in the digital age.

[slowtiger]

Amazing - I didn't expect that much positive feedback.

Peter: the thing is that you need to define the "active" frame(s) somehow. It can't be all frames - that would only be an image layer. It can't be the frame which is displayed at the moment - this would result in very short strokes splattered over all frames. Maybe it would work to define 5 or even 10 frames in advance, and only one of them can be active at any time. Switching between them could be done via number keys, perhaps.

There needs to be more. The current active frame has to be marked in playback somehow, maybe with a light red border which is visible as long as this frame is displayed, maybe even with the number of the frame visible then.

It also would be nice to have the playback speed a bit easier adjusted than now. I'd prefer a horizontal slider over the current pulldown menu, with continuous speeds between 1 and 30 fps.

Another thing which comes to my mind right now would be the concept of special "edit views". Right now every tool in TVP is available at (nearly) any time, no matter what else I'm doing. The "rooms" concept helps a bit to tidy up the screen.

Now if you take this concept a step further, you could have a certain complex function, like this new drawing mode, appear in a new "room" or "edit views" which only displays the necessary tools, but hide and make inactive everything else - they would become active again when you leave that room. For that special drawing mode, the available tools could be restricted to blue/orange pencil and a slider for the opacity of the running animation. Or: a certain checkbox on all layers which does select this layer for drawing playback with the current transparency ... something like that.

I also like the idea to disable any keystrokes other than those for that edit view.

[Fabrice]

Yesterday someone came up with a very interesting request at http://www.flipbook-online.de/viewtopic.php?p=2395. I don't request this as a soon-to-be added feature, but like to hear some opinions.

What he describes translates as follows:
Imagine having a short sequence of animation. In this sequence you'd define one empty frame, in the middle or wherever. Now the special drawing mode kicks in, which replays the sequence as a loop while you draw into the empty frame. You draw right into the movement, so to say. The contents of your drawing frame will be included in the replay immediately.

At first I didn't really understand him, but then it made sense. I don't know if something like this was ever implemented anywhere. I think it's not outside of TVP's core capabilities, but what do you think? Would it be useful at all?

I confirm, it's a good idea

[CoreyAnimator]

This idea is really revolutionary.

I mean, think of how much easier it would be to animate when you can animate in real time. More fun too. I've never seen a software do this before, but im surprised no one ever thought of it before in an animation software. Would make drawing on paper and drawing animation on the computer a major difference/advantage.

Animate in real time...wow

[Paul Fierlinger]

Wow, you guys are surely imaginative, because I've been running this idea through my head for the past hour and just don't get it. When you animate, aren't you in essence always using one or two other drawings as a reference point between which you insert your current lines? I can't imagine how it would be useful to draw between constantly moving lines -- this sounds just nuts to me!

[Svengali]

Intriguing concept. I remember reading this when it was first posted and trying to picture in my mind how it might work. In my vision, the working layout remains exactly as it is now EXCEPT there is a separate , small, scale-able window continually looping the sequence (selected frames from either all layers or, more likely, just the current layer) running at full, half or an "adjustable, slow" speed. Any changes to the current frame would instantly update in the looping sequence window. To continue working, you would simply select and draw on any given frame (or insert a new frame) in the usual way (but each change to the current frame would be instantly injected in the looping context).

Another option I've been thinking about lately is an extended lightbox feature which somehow shows the existing, fully painted frames (maybe as monochrome tones) preceding and following the frame I'm currently painting on. I'm experimenting with direct painting on the frame, building up forms with solid, fully-loaded brush strokes, which means that previous frames only show up in the lightbox as opaque silhouettes with no hint as to the silhouette's interior construction. As it is, these undifferentiated lightbox shapes provide no detail to build onto or evolve from.

In fact, this new concept for a companion, live-looping window might be just what I need when painting frames using brushstrokes, not contour lines.

Sven

[Paul Fierlinger]

EXCEPT there is a separate , small, scale-able window continually looping the sequence ...... Any changes to the current frame would instantly update in the looping sequence window.

That would explain it. That does explain it to me, now that I think more about it. So if I were to select only a small sequence of already completed frames to allow my current frame in progress come up often, I could see my new drawing merge into the sequence.

But then, so what? What could I possibly expect to see that I already can't imagine happening? Let's face it; there isn't such a huge change in motion between two frames. Now perhaps, in those few cases during which I would draw a character madly dashing across the frame during which I could get almost instant feedback of how well I have placed and posed this one out of only five drawings, I can imagine getting some benefit... and as Sven suggests here, to be able to better inbetween solid shapes, I can see garnering a substantial benefit...

And now, as I try to come up with more possibilities, I can see the advantages such a feature would offer when animating special effects such as cascades of volumes of water spilling across the entire screen, because right there, the difference between two frames can be sometimes hard to imagine without seeing it in motion.

This is a brilliant idea.

[Peter Wassink]

... As it is, these undifferentiated lightbox shapes provide no detail to build onto or evolve from.

In fact, this new concept for a companion, live-looping window might be just what I need when painting frames using brushstrokes, not contour lines.

Sven

Sven, you do know you can set the Light table colormode to none? (this lets you see the color and the 'inside' of the shapes on the surrounding frames)
although this setting tends to get very confusing fast. i would advise to only switch on one (or max two) frames at a time.
But indeed live-looping feedback would serve perfectly here.

[Paul Fierlinger]

Actually coloring in general could benefit greatly from this feature, as in the instance of the cascade of falling water; the colors should change from one frame to the next and the only way to observe the proper choices of color to make the effect work would be to see this in constant motion.

[Svengali]

As a matter of fact Peter, NO, I hadn't tried that! And it appears to work quite well for my purposes... I've only recently began animating with solid brushstrokes so
thanks for pointing that out. Just having the previous, fully painted frame visible underneath and then varying its strength with the zero slider will help immeasurably I think.

sven

EDIT: And using Out of Peg when necessary, I can see, precisely, the painted details from the previous frame without obscuring them as I paint on the current frame! Wow...Wonderful!

[Byron]

This sounds a bit like the feature in StopMotionPro, whereby you can have it play a set number of frames and then pause (for a preset amount of time) on the final 'live' image before looping back and playing the set number of frames again, then when you hit capture - it adds the captured image to the loop. This allows you to make adjustments to your puppet, and see how it fits into the action. Of course, stop motion is all straight ahead animation - so the live image is always the last image.

Having a monitor window with a constantly updating frame sounds like a great idea, though.