Consistent behavior between SPLIT Layer and SPLIT Clip

[D.T. Nethery]

UPDATE: Searching the forum I find that Peter Wassink brought up this issue back in 2015. Peter's summation of the problem was much more succinct than my post below, so here is Peter's request to sum up what I was trying to get at in my longer post below:

When you split a layer TVPaint will split to the right side of the current frame, but if you split a clip TVPaint will make the split to the left side of the current frame.

Split behavior (on either a layer or clip) should be consistent: TVPaint should always cut to the right of the current frame ...or cut to the left of the current frame... I really don't mind which side , as long as it is consistently the same for both cases, Split Layer or Split Clip.



---------

My original long-winded request with screenshots:


This may seem like such a small thing that I may be accused of "splitting hairs" (ha-ha) , so I hesitate to bring it up, but it's one of those little inconsistencies of behavior between two functions that have the same name which seem as though they should have the same behavior.

I'm talking about SPLIT Layer compared to SPLIT Clip.

SPLIT Layer command (from the Handy Panel and also from the Layer Menu) splits to the frame after the selected frame. So , for example if I have a layer that is 24 frames long and I split it at frame 12, the result is an even split, so the first layer has 12 frames and the second layer has 12 frames.

However, SPLIT Clip command (from the Clip Menu) behaves differently in that it will split to the frame before the selected frame. So if I am on frame 12 when I click on SPLIT Clip , it splits to the frame before , so the first clip (Clip 001_left) has 11 frames and the second clip (Clip_001_right) has 13 frames , instead of an even split of 12 frames and 12 frames , like the SPLIT Layer command.

Of course , it's not a terrible burden to have to remember that the two similarly named functions (SPLIT Layer and SPLIT Clip) behave differently in how they apply the Split (after or before), so if I am splitting the Clip and want it to be an even split I have to remember to move the cursor ahead one frame to frame 13, so when it splits the clip it will split it at frame 12 , resulting in an even split of 12 and 12. But it seems like this Splitting behavior should be consistent, whether the user is splitting a layer or splitting a clip, so no mental shift is required. Every time the user invokes a Split command (whether it is to Split a layer or a clip) the user knows that the split will be after the selected frame.

Does the request make sense to anyone else or am I being too picky about this ?

[Peter Wassink]

I don't think you are to picky

Having the exact same action of splitting an image sequence, behave differently within one application still drives me nuts.
i assume that other people can maybe memorize this easily and i sometimes think i'm sort of dyslexic with these things
But after 20 years of TVPaint use i still have to first apply to see what happens. like tossing a coin every time ...its very frustrating

[D.T. Nethery]

I don't think you are to picky

Having the exact same action of splitting an image sequence, behave differently within one application still drives me nuts.
i assume that other people can maybe memorize this easily and i sometimes think i'm sort of dyslexic with these things

But after 20 years of TVPaint use i still have to first apply to see what happens. like tossing a coin every time ...its very frustrating

Me, too ! It would be so much better if SPLIT (layer or clip) always means the split occurs to the left (before current frame) or to the right (after current frame). I don't care if it's left or right, as long as it is the same every time, so I don't have to stop my work flow to remember where the split will occur.

[Peter Wassink]

i wanted to revisit this now 10 year old issue, because splitting is still inconsistent between:
-layers
-clips
-scenes

Scenes or Layers split to the Right from current Clip or Frame (in Project or Timeline view respectively)
but in timeline view "Split Clip" splits to the Left of the current frame.

When you try to split scenes or layers while you are on the last panel, nothing happens. (makes sense because there is nothing to the right)
But when you "split clip" on the first panel of a clip, TVPaint creates a new clip... without layers! (Bug?)

if you "split-layer" a selection of frames, the layer will be split on both sides of that selection (makes sense, although i'd like the option to also split the inbetween frames...)
But you can not split a selection of clips in the project view.
(if you merge two clips you get an extra camera layer halfway in your layer list)

And finally a question regarding splitting.
Is there an easy way to split a layer with, say 50 frames, into 50 clips? (to print out a storyboard)

[D.T. Nethery]

i wanted to revisit this now 10 year old issue, because splitting is still inconsistent between:
-layers
-clips
-scenes

Thanks for bringing this up again , Peter. This issue is important for anyone who uses TVPaint every day as their main storyboarding/animatic-building tool (and for animation). The inconsistency between the splitting behavior on layers, clips, and scenes is a annoying because it disrupts the user's workflow. Anything that can be done to minimize disruptions to the workflow is important.

And finally a question regarding splitting.
Is there an easy way to split a layer with, say 50 frames, into 50 clips? (to print out a storyboard)

I don't know how to quickly split a layer into multiple clips to print out for a storyboard , only the usual way of Split Clip (x 50 ) , but a workaround could be to use Bookmarks.
Let's say we have 50 storyboard panels drawn sequentially on a single layer (but exposed for different lengths of time for the purposes of the animatic). Bookmark the first occurrence of each storyboard panel (intance). If you have a keyboard shortcut for Add Bookmark , plus a shortcut set to jump between instances , you can quickly navigate from one panel to the next , hit the shortcut to Add Bookmark, then quickly jump to the next instance, Add Bookmark, etc. Then when you go to Publish , select Frame - Bookmarks.
The limitation of this workaround is if you have Action, Dialog, Notes selected in the Publish settings, it only adds the boxes for Action, Dialog, and Notes to the first panel.

I didn't do 50 panels, but here it is illustrated with 10 panels. Each panel is bookmarked. The Publish settings are set to publish the Bookmarked frames.

By the way, TVPaint Developers, please add the command Clear All Bookmarks to the little pop-up menu for Toggle Bookmark . There is a shortcut command to Clear All Bookmarks that can be assigned to any key , but I think Clear All Bookmarks should also be in that pop-up menu. Even better would be an additional command in the menu for Clear Selected Bookmarks, if you only want to clear a certain section of bookmarks , but not clear all bookmarks.

Screen Shot 2025-05-07 at 12.33.07 PM.jpg (23.62 KiB) Viewed 4173 times

[Dean]

Hello both, your requests have been noted and will be studied ASAP

[Peter Wassink]

I don't know how to quickly split a layer into multiple clips to print out for a storyboard , only the usual way of Split Clip (x 50 ) , but a workaround could be to use Bookmarks.

It was Hisko Hulsing who asked me and i couldn't help him only later did i think of the bookmark option.
But one drawback with that is... the storyboard publisher only allows one text and dialog box per clip.

So with this bookmark workaround you 'd have to forgo those.