Hello all! I'm new here, and feeling rather helpless ^^;

[Fabrice]

I really like that idea of Paul's , to have a preset sample project open up showing a simple animation sequence -- "bouncing ball already drawn on the first layer, painted on the layer below, and a background layer below those two. The Lightable should already be opened and the Tool set should have an eraser in its arsenal" -- and the tools enabled that Paul mentions. This would instantly help new users to see how the layers and frames are set up on the timeline.

And Matthew's idea to have option of the preset project disabled with a simple box to uncheck in the Start-Up panel if you don't want the preset sample project to open .

note that there is a bouncing ball project on the TVPaint DVD-Rom, with some other projects in the "content and examples" folder.

[Paul Fierlinger]

That's not the same thing. When someone is entirely new to TVP and opens it for the very first time, he doesn't see enough information to even get started. What can you do with just one frame if you don't see a row of frames and nothing indicates that you can actually make a new frame? How can you erase if you don't see an eraser and the other side of your pen draws instead of erases? What good is a tutorial that starts with a GUI that looks different from the one you see on your computer? What we are suggesting here should be so simple to implement and enormously helpful. When teaching a dog, think like a dog.

[Fabrice]

the other side of your pen draws instead of erases?

I might be wrong, but it's not like this right now. The eraser stylus should ... erase, at least in a new configuration.
If not, it's a bug, since TVPaint Animation 10.0.0 was doing it.

What good is a tutorial that starts with a GUI that looks different from the one you see on your computer?

I might be wrong too, but I think that all our lastest tutorials (the ones from July 2012) start with the default interface.

[Paul Fierlinger]

My pen behaves that way and someone or other pops up all the time here saying the same thing. It's not as if I'm saying that there is no way for a newbie to find these things out but we should be accommodating and present the cues where they belong: as soon as the GUI appears it should be apparent how TVP works.

EDIT: I have given over the phone and over the years private instructions to many people who are now in love with this software but who wanted to give up because they claimed TVP's interface is hostile -- and it is, let's face the truth.
The guy who started this thread is a perfect example of what I say here. He didn't stay around long enough to even wait for the answers -- he must have been that frustrated. I can easily imagine how many new customers you have lost just because you expect them to put too much exploratory work in trying to figure out how this software works.

[Elodie]

and someone or other pops up all the time here saying the same thing

If that guy is using the Mac version, it's normal (don't forget the 64 bit version has be partially re written in Cocoa) : this bug will be corrected soon.
In your case, Paul, you have to reset your configuration. Fabrice tried with different tablets and it was successful each time.

Personally, I disagree to propose an "interface for newbies" with one pencil, one eraser and a timeline with 10 frames, when starting the software for the first time.

When you learn how to drive, your vehicle has more than a wheel : you also have different treadles, the gear lever, blinkers... The driving-school instructor does not add these elements on your dashboard one after the others : you have to learn with all these elements at the same time, without forgetting to be careful on what's happening on the front, on the sides and behind you

It's the same with TVPaint, you have to be familiar on the main big features : the main panel, the color panel, the tool panel, the timeline and the drawing space. The user guide and the tutorials we did are your instructors, as well as the forum and our emails.

Another example : can you imagine an "interface for newbies" on After effects ? I can't. That's why I have been taught at school and why there are tutorials on the web.

We know TVPaint Animation still has some points to improve, and that's why the interface is still changing through the years. Don't forget, 4 years ago (in TVPaint 9.0), there were 4 lines in the main panel (3 now) and all the custom panels were visible (5 panels !) while they are all hidden now.

[Fabrice]

improvement is a long road.

fuzzbucket, I wish you can continue to discuss in the topic you are welcome.

[slowtiger]

I'm with Paul here. After installing TVP, it could open with an introductory scene - something really with a bold arrow pointing down and saying "Press play!", then pointing to tools and timeline and so on.

Of course it also must provide the way to how to de-activate it ... it's annoying (in every software) if the user can't skip this.

The thing is, most users are not aware of the menu and the help - so often (in all software) I had pointed them to the in-built help! It seems that there's a certain brand of people who only see what's in the middle of the screen, neatly named and jumping onto them. It's possible to educate them, bou you really need to hold their hand for a start.

[Paul Fierlinger]

It seems that there's a certain brand of people who only see what's in the middle of the screen, neatly named and jumping onto them. It's possible to educate them, bou you really need to hold their hand for a start.

This is a fact of life and to ignore it is just silly.

[meslin]

Just to put in my two cents, having introduced a few dozen animators to TVP, with some people taking to it, and some not...
Very often, people would frown when they see the interface, but start smiling once they see some doodles and can identify the the application's intended function as a "bitmap Flash"--which is how I've heard many young animators classify TVP.

I do agree that the first apprehension of the interface upon startup is a critical period where TVP is losing some potential users. It's partially because these tend to be the users who are stressed out by new or different things, but also because the TVP interface does not follow the contemporary UI conventions (not that this is a bad thing). I think it should be acknowledged that TVP's decision to design their own UI elements (rather than assuming OS-standard handles, edges, buttons, etc.) is a decision with some advantages and disadvantages. It's indeed consistent and intuitive once you're familiar with it, and therefore easy to forget about the primary disadvantage: it initially looks very strange and impenetrable. Some steps could be done to mitigate this problem (a problem which I personally think is the primary bottleneck for expanding the user base). One step might be to have a demo project that explains itself, although I see how this ideologically clashes with the TVP "no nonsense" thing. Another might be to have a direct link to very short YouTube videos at an optional startup screen, kind of a "Did You Know?" thing...

-David

[Fabrice]

Another might be to have a direct link to very short YouTube videos at an optional startup screen, kind of a "Did You Know?" thing...

Now that we have the first tutorials online, we will do.

[fuzzbucket]

Oh! Wow! I really had no idea I'd gotten replies here- I expected to get an email notifying me, and since I didn't, I completely forgot I started this thread haha.

Lots of very nice replies, yes I missed the 'tutorials' button above (silly) but I found an amazing tumblr giving the basics of TVP and hints on making a Flash-person comfortable in the TVP environment

I'm really liking the TVP experience so far <3

-But I came here with a problem (that's how I found my old thread lol). When I export an avi, it comes without sound, even though export sound track is checked.
-And if I'm here, I may as well ask out of curiousity, how do I make my TVP9 file compatible with TVP8?
-Also, is there a way to hide the timeline notes area, or shrink it horizontally? I like having a huge drawing area.

Thanks everyone!

[Paul Fierlinger]

Go to your personal forum settings to make answers to your posts automatically sent to you.
How are you sure your AVI comes without sound? What/where are you playing it back with? Might the problem be there?
What do you mean by compatible with TVP8? -- all version projects are compatible backwards and forwards.
There is a thin, white line between timelines and sound and notes. Grab this line and push it upwards (in later versions these lines have been made more salient).

[fuzzbucket]

Go to your personal forum settings to make answers to your posts automatically sent to you.
How are you sure your AVI comes without sound? What/where are you playing it back with? Might the problem be there?
What do you mean by compatible with TVP8? -- all version projects are compatible backwards and forwards.
There is a thin, white line between timelines and sound and notes. Grab this line and push it upwards (in later versions these lines have been made more salient).

I imported a wav file and am lip syncing to it, it works during playback via the remote panel..I asumed it should get exported into an avi as well
Compatibility- a friend with TVP8 can't open my file, it just opens as a blank new project.
Thanks!

[fuzzbucket]

Oh! Is there a way to get all the frames on repeat 2? Without going one by one..

[Paul Fierlinger]

But what does it mean for you to open an AVI file? For me it means I open the AVI file in my editing software and I will instantly see both image and wav graph but might not have the sound turned on. For you it might mean you play it back with an AVI player and again, the sound isn't turned up. But back to the export panel; you say you have "Export Sound Track" checked. But which codec are you using and do you have the sound selected? Try this: Select Uncompressed (BGR24) for video and PCM for sound and see what happens.

About your friend not being able to open your file in TVP 8 there is still a lot of information missing -- what operating system, how is this friend importing the file, Right now it is beginning to sound as if you don't have all your export settings right. Could you upload here a screen print of your Export panel?