iPad Pro version of TVPaint

[jcarter20]

How much interest might there be in an OS9 version of TVPaint to work with the just announced iPad Pro?

[Elodie]

How much interest ? To be honest, I don't know.

First of all, I wish we could test this new iPad Pro and that stylus to a have better opinion (ok, it's pretty and smooth in their ad : but what's about real experience ?).
Apple is kinda late regarding drawing tablets and stylus engine : for the company in 2007 / 2008, touch screen was THE new fashion and using stylus was like something from the past. 7-8 years later, they change sides. Alright, "only idiots won't change their mind", but contrary to brands like Samsung, Wacom or Microsoft which never left stylus aside, Apple has no experience whether on device or OS / drivers.

At the moment, I think this point is the most important one. If the product can be as powerful as aforementioned tablets, maybe we should give it a try.

[Fabrice]

There are pros and cons :

Pros :
Finally a pressure sensitive native Apple stylus ! (Damn, all the various Ipad stylus creators that made crowdfunding campaign during those last years are just all dead ! ...)

Cons :
32 GB or 128 GB is not that much, but ok, it will be improved in the future it shouldn't be a big deal.
IOS9 is not a real Operating System since almost everything is closed.
Apple doesn't accept in the Apple Store any software using Quicktime library.

So if we think about a portage :
A lot of options might be missing and we might need a lot of people here working on the development to find workarounds.
f.i in addition of the Quicktime question, I even don't know if creating .tvpp and .tvpx would be accepted by the Apple policy within IOS9 and Apple Store.
You need to ask the authorization to Apple to be on the Apple Store and we are unsure they will accept TVPaint, mostly for the reasons above mentioned + they might remove it at any moment.
~ 35% of the sales prices goes to Apple. It really doesn't help, our development costs money.

But the most important point is :
In contrary to Android, we might have difficulties to re-use our current C++ libraries and code.
It's really unsure at the moment and a complete rewrite of the code in a different language would be too much time consuming to be affordable (I should even say that it might not be technically possible, since C++ is the most efficient dev language).

So will see, we need to check this last point deeply.
As you can see the final answer is not for now.

[jcarter20]

Thanks Elodie and Fabrice, you both make very good points. I'm just hoping for a tablet that uses the Apple OS at some future point, and I thought this might be an option to using a Surface Pro, which I like as a machine, but I just cannot get used to the Windows way of thinking. Probably because I've grown-up on Apple products

[Elodie]

You are very welcome.

My personal point of view : I think the biggest mistake of Apple comes from the fact they are closed to everything that is not "Apple's seal of approval".
Their hardware, their OS, their devices, even their software : everything is made by and for Apple. If you allow me the comparison, Apple is like the North Korea of computer science.

Look at other similar products :
• Cintiq Companion 2 : Wacom technology using Microsoft's OS
• Galaxy Note : Samsung hardware + Wacom stylus technology using Android
• Surface Pro : Microsoft OS and hardware using N-trig stylus technology (ok, N-trig was recently bought by Microsoft ).
2 or 3 companies work together to create powerful products.
Because there is a moment when you must realize you may be good at something but very bad at something else. And that's why you should really be partner with someone who can do what you can't.

If Apple was not so narrow-minded, I'm sure an "iCintiq-Pad" would have been a hit.

[slowtiger]

I have the very frustrating feeling that Apple doesn't care about professionals anymore. What they present year after year is just consumer stuff, what they announce as "creative" is on an I-make-greeting-cards-with-an-app level. With their financial and technological background it would've been easy to fork OSX some years ago, having a consumer version with all the sugar and emojis, and a professional version which at least didn't have less functionality than the previous versions. But no, they decided to make everything as dumb as iOS no matter on which hardware. I find this quite arrogant and am deepy disappointed, especially after working professionally with Apple products for more than 2 decades.

[Fabrice]

Apple can follow two paths in the future :

* Make the next MacBook Pro use also and only IOS and Apple Store (it could be the end of professionnal software on Mac)

or

* Add OSX in a more expensive model of the IPad Pro (to compare : Wacom tried with the Cintiq + Android, then they switched to Windows)

[NathanOtano]

Apple can follow two paths in the future :

* Make the next MacBook Pro use also and only IOS and Apple Store (it could be the end of professionnal software on Mac)

or

* Add OSX in a more expensive model of the IPad Pro (to compare : Wacom tried with the Cintiq + Android, then they switched to Windows)

I was thinking the same for the second solution. The first seems to me really hard to believe, because they'll have to leave a lot behind and unless OSX is not used anymore because of the quality and simplicity of ios, we will not see it disappear. What seems more believable to me is a device that could run both OSX programs and IOS apps, and devices powerfull enough to find professional apps on ios that will overcome OSX programs.

Also it seems to me that they are trying with this transition to push developers to create more professional apps for ios, with a really powerful device and stylus, which with IOS is a nonsense for me because for now it's mainly doodles (really good painting apps, maybe animating is kind of better, but nothing to do an entire production). Then they'll do the logical transition to a Mac/ipad pro with OSX and a touch+stylus surface, for professional apps.

I'm not really worried to not see TVPaint OSX running on the next ipad/mac generation with a touch+stylus mac surface. Don't know if tvpaint on ios can be a solution, but maybe a little tiny tvpaint just for animation with reduced price could be a really great add to the app store, i know a lot of ipad owners really need a good app to animate.

[Fabrice]

The first seems to me really hard to believe,

I agree but I'm afraid when I'm thinking about the Apple evolution during those last 20 years. But I'm maybe paranoid.

Also it seems to me that they are trying with this transition to push developers to create more professional apps for ios

Sure, but with an average price of 1 or 2 euros per apps + the 35% of income that is kept by Apple for each software sold, it's not really appealling for professionnal software that require a lot of development & developpers. We really need an Ipad Pro with a MacOS inside.

but maybe a little tiny tvpaint just for animation with reduced price could be a really great add to the app store,

A such app (even a simple one) would maybe require several developpers and testers too (an other branch in the code, all the I/O and internal windows to rewrite, + bringing some limitations to a C++ code which was not created to be limited ... it might be a lot to do). So as said above, we will check and think about it ... will see.

[NathanOtano]

We definitely need a "like" button on this forum

[habashtvpaint]

Apple is like the North Korea of computer science.

AMEN to that

[artfx]

Doesn't seem worth consideration to me. Generally, I don't think the iPad customer is a TVPaint customer. I don't see a lot of overlap in those markets.

[schwarzgrau]

I have the very frustrating feeling that Apple doesn't care about professionals anymore. What they present year after year is just consumer stuff, what they announce as "creative" is on an I-make-greeting-cards-with-an-app level. With their financial and technological background it would've been easy to fork OSX some years ago, having a consumer version with all the sugar and emojis, and a professional version which at least didn't have less functionality than the previous versions. But no, they decided to make everything as dumb as iOS no matter on which hardware. I find this quite arrogant and am deepy disappointed, especially after working professionally with Apple products for more than 2 decades.

Absolutely agree on that!

[opusanimo]

Maybe its time to wake this question again? Now when the Ipad Pro is out with a quite good press sencitive pen. Do you think you will reconcider releasing a version for it? Cheers / Per, Opus Animo

[bazookash]

Maybe its time to wake this question again? Now when the Ipad Pro is out with a quite good press sencitive pen. Do you think you will reconcider releasing a version for it? Cheers / Per, Opus Animo

Yes.... I am willing to pay another full price to get IPad Pro edition..
I know Apple OSs (especially) is not programmer friendly, but I think it's worth to invest it. I am sure it will be game changer in Apple store. I am sure many animators will buy Tvpaint + Ipad more.
At least, not full feature one, Ipad pro edition or something.
Animation software in Apple market is not really great... yet..
I totally agree with opusanimo. Please reconsider it.