SLOCUM at sea with himself LAUNCHED

[furushil]

I am sorry, I did not want to get on anyones nerves. Other people are also commenting on the works here in the forum (including Paul and you) and Paul said he does not mind to be critiqued.
I am just trying to give constructive criticism but if you want me to stop, I will.

I myself like classical animation but I am not trying to convince anyone to animate in any particular way. Any type of animation can be interesting as long as it is believable and tells a story.

As I said I respect other types of animation as long as they are convincing.

Why is the spacing of the projectile so chaotic?
I am not saying that everything should be perfect but it should have a reason why it is moving in a certain way and THAT is what makes a style.
I don't mind the animation to be rough and spontaneous but it shouldn't look like a mistake. That is what I mean by convincing.

[Sewie]

I wish I had time to write a more elaborate reaction.

For now, I just want to point out that I find Furushil's posts very interesting! (So please don't be discouraged by those with weak nerves.)

Edit: Thinking about it, it bothers me VERY much that when Furushil offers an honest opinion, illustrated and underpinned with solid arguments he gets reproached with personal insults like, "...you are itching for a fight..." and "...you are getting on my nerves". This is downright bullying!!

I've seen it happen before and and I don't understand how it keeps being tolerated on this forum!

[Greg Lawson]

Furushil, just as Chagall or Picasso did not draw realistically, so are there many experiences of animation which do not conform to mere realism. Unfortunately, the popularity of the Disney approach to animation has stifled many imaginations (and stimulated others, it must be said) and made the animation world much less varied than is necessary or desirable just from the sheer ubiquity of the teachings. For the average person it is much more easy to interpret a photograph than an abstract painting, but where would human endeavor be if we always stopped at the surface of existence, and didn't probe more deeply, in more individual and personal ways?

Perhaps you made an error in trying to judge Paul's style and motives from a few clips detached from the whole work, which is tantamount to judging a painting from an isolated detail. The experience of following the adventure of "Slocum" in its entirety requires a similar patience to that which one employs when reading a thoughtful book. It is full of beauty and insights and thoughts, and one is coerced into the proper state of meditation precisely through the kind of animation which Paul has employed and learned to exploit over many years of development. The slow and methodical building up of the tying of a knot, or the hoisting of a sail, or the ebb and flow of the constantly changing water would not be as effective if it were merely accurate. Paul's style jolts one's full attention to the act, to recognize that it actually happened because a human being, with a human hand, carved it out of his memory. When he animates a movement more slowly than it would happen in life, we pay more concentrated attention to it, to care about a commonplace occurrence, to savor it more fully. What you see as being awkward is perhaps the deliberate sketchiness he allows himself as he attempts to catch the spontaneity of the scenes as they occur in his mind's eye, capturing lightening in a bottle, as they say. Perhaps he feels that that "awkwardness" captures exactly the moment and feeling he wishes to evoke. In the sandwich scene you cited, Paul's animation conveys the concept of "awkwardness" much better than a prettily inbetweened piece would (imho) and, in fact, I laughed out loud in recognition. This approach may or may not be attractive to a large audience, but it's not for nothing he is one of the animators who has worked longest, and very successfully, as an independent, whether you appreciate the style or not.

What I suggest is that you may have been trying to separate the animation from the film of which it was a part, with the paradigm of realism-based Disney animation being your criteria of what you call "convincing", and which for you, apparently, is the goal towards which all animation aims.

Aside from this, if you are truly interested in offering constructive criticism, you might also consider how you engage the other person. In this case, a fellow artist has spent a remarkable six years creating a personal work of great insight and beauty, in his own time and at his own expense. Can you not take the feelings of that person into account, to consider whether or not the moment were appropriate? I'm sure you could have found a more constructive way to discuss the issue of what you consider to be "good animation" without assuming your opinion were anything other than an opinion. Offering to "fix" someone's long-established style, I'm afraid, comes across as presumptuous, even if not intended to be.

I appreciate that your intentions were good, and you offered some good questions but perhaps a little more tact would have helped you achieve more communication. This is the human side of the equation (again, in my opinion).

[furushil]

Thank you for sharing your point of view about the „style“ of the animation. I was hoping that Paul himself could tell me what his thoughts were, when he made that spacing decision.
When I said that his drawings are floating around in space he did not acknowledged it. If he would say „yes, I did that on purpose to coerce the viewer into a proper state of meditation“, I would have more understanding. All I got was that I was "itching for a fight" and that "people like it the way it is“.

As I already mentioned, I am interested in different kinds of animation.
I do agree that an abstract painting for example consisting of geometrical figures, can be very effective. If you would animate something like geometrical figures or other abstract forms you could have all the freedom in the world to move them around and I would have never criticized it.

My point was, that Paul’s film is suppose to depict a realistic story and realistic people. There are no fantasy characters or abstract forms. That is why I was trying to comment on the timing and spacing problem that I saw as an animator.
I am only concentrating on the technical side of the animation. The story may be lovely and very interesting but Paul has nothing to do with it. Seriously.

I am quite confused because it is the first time I ever critiqued anyone here.
I did not expect that the outcome would be that bad.

Somehow I feel that I still get misunderstood for what I mean with convincing.
Let’s put Disney animation aside. I only said that I like classical animation not that everyone should animate in a Disney style. I don’t understand why it is always ok to dislike animation with a lot of animation principles in it but it is narrow minded to criticize other types of animation.
Let me try to explain again. I think an artist should convince the viewer of the way he pictures something. The viewer has to look at the artwork and believe that everything was intentional. When I watched Paul’s teasers, I saw a lot of things that looked like mistakes to me. I am not convinced at all that this was intentional. That is why I was curious what thought process went into these decisions.

[Elodie]

Since we are kindly encouraged to give a feedback, it's time to give mine.
I agree with Furushil.

I'm sorry Paul. I do respect your art and your work. Being able to produce alone a 2-hours feature is incredible and deserve respect. I am fully conscious of the time you needed to make this film, but whatever, I don't like neither your graphic nor the way you animate (except ships on water, which is amazing!). I have never told it before, not because I am a coward, but because it would have been mean and it's not in my nature to clearly tell someone "I totally dislike what you worked on during 5 years".
Sometimes I think silence is the best criticism, especially when absolutely nothing can be done. (Would you have animated in a cartoon or manga style if I had told you this sooner ? Would you have read Richard Williams book and changed the way you animate ? No, you would have just been angry against me, as you are now against Furushil.)

For many years, I always read you being bored of other people's emphasis, positive feedbacks and kind words. You always complained for a lack of real criticism.
And so, as a defender of the liberty to criticize, you were frequently terribly rude against people regarding animation, timing, graphic, colors or stories. I remember once you even criticized Vera Lalyko for being pregnant twice and who had made the choice to take care of her babies instead of her film.

Anyway, I always thought you were an open-minded person towards criticisms you could receive on your work. I've been told by Fabrice that he convinced you to use another font than Arial to write text in Slocum.

Furushil wrote some very well constructed criticism about your animation style. It was explained with concrete examples and he did the best he could to be kind. At least, he was much more tactful than any of your own lampoon. To be honest, I strongly believe that Furushil gave you his feedback on your work only because of the number of times you did the same.
That's quite hypocrite to ask for honest feedbacks and turn into a grumpy under-rated animator when critics against your own work come.

I have no hope for things going better, so I think it's time for a cease-fire. Week-end is approaching and I really don't want to read tons of childish and sterile posts on Monday morning.
Since some of you are not able to act as adult, I will treat you like children : I temporarily close the "Made in TVPaint" sub-forum.
I won't delete these messages anyway : we never applied censorship here. Enjoy the following days to put things into perspective and please, don't keep going fights by private message or on other forums part (or then I will have to apply worst sanctions).

Thanks.

[Jourdan Biziou]

Oh Paul congratulations )

Im really looking forward to seeing this ! I remember when you were working on My Dog Tulip and how beautiful it was.

I recently got back into my personal animation and am rediscovering how much I missed and love it, You films are inspiring )