A new user with a few ideas to improve TVPaint...

[David_Fine]

I have been working now with TVPaint for about a week. TVPaint is amazing and the list of great things it does is huge, but I notice some small things which I think could improve TVPaint, particularly for the Mac user like me. I know it may seem a bit much for a novice user to suggest ways to improve what is already an amazing program, but I thought I would share these ideas and maybe even find out that some of things I am asking for do exist, but I may not be aware of them, so here goes...

Small thing, but I wish that when I use a pen, or brush, I could see a preview of the size of the brush I am about to draw with by way of a circle with a cross in it rather than just the cross. Essentially, exactly as Photoshop does it. I find that very useful in Photoshop as it confirms the brush size visually.

Speaking of the brush, a really fundamental thing I am used to in other graphics apps is the ability to very quickly change between my drawing tool and my eraser of choice. TVPaint won’t do this. I know it will quickly erase using the same pen I am drawing with, but if that pen is very fine or chalk like, it is not very useful as an eraser, so I need to change to my own predefined eraser, which involves multi clicks and moving the pen back and forth between the buttons. I would like to be able to make my own eraser and assign that to a button on my pen. That way, I could draw and erase without even lifting the pen from the screen, just as I can do in other graphic apps. Related to that, if I could assign a keyboard command to any brush, then the use of buttons on my pen would be limitless. That would be a great addition and, I think, pretty easy to fix.

Making my own buttons (or actions) and palettes is great and a vital part of organizing the things I need for specific tasks. I wish I could organize the buttons by dragging them around. Currently, there is no way of moving a button within the palette except to do multiple cut and paste, which is very tedious. Dragging a button to another palette or ALT dragging to copy it to another palette would be great! Also, when using a brush or button and changing some parameter, it would be good if a right click menu option were to update that action, or button. Right now I have to make a new button and then delete the old one. Not so terrible, but feels a bit clunky.

Speaking of making buttons, I notice a confusing error. The menu set in TVPaint should be replicated in the button editing panel, but it's not. So if I want to make a button which will, for instance, “remove instance head”, I would expect to find it in the same menu hierarchy as in the program. That is, Image/Exposure/Remove Instance Head. However, in the button edit panel it is hidden under Layer/Exposure/Delete Instance Head. It took some searching to find it there and so I wondered why it was not under the expected menu and even called a different thing (“delete” instead of “remove” instance head).

On the Mac, there is a double set of menus at the top. Not the end of the world, but a bit odd. When I go to full screen, however, that second menu set keeps popping down, obscuring the TVPaint menu, which is annoying. I’ve not seen this behaviour on any other program on the Mac. I think that's because on other programs, the menu disappears in full screen, but here, it stays so you get two menus.

Macs have track pads and they can be really useful so it would be great if pinching or twisting zoomed and rotated the artwork. Not an essential, because I know there are shortcuts to do this with the pen, but just a thought. Also scrolling on the timeline with the trackpad would be great. I can usually do this with two finger swiping in Final Cut Pro and Pro Tools. Could this happen in TVPaint?

Shift S to save is counter to every other Mac application. Same with the warning box that comes up when you close a project, which is not like the standard "close without saving”. It’s a bit disconcerting to the Mac user, so using the convention every other app does on the Mac would be more intuitive.

Previewing from the current frame, or curser position is the most useful option so it would be great if that was on the transport bar rather than the one that plays from the beginning. I know I can make a button on a palette to do this, but using the transport right below the image is the most intuitive thing.

I'm sure I will find some other things as I continue to work with the program, but this is a start. Hope to hear what you think.

Cheers, David

[D.T. Nethery]

I'll let others jump in concerning your other suggestions, but here are a couple of comments on two of the things you are asking for:

Speaking of the brush, a really fundamental thing I am used to in other graphics apps is the ability to very quickly change between my drawing tool and my eraser of choice. TVPaint won’t do this. I know it will quickly erase using the same pen I am drawing with, but if that pen is very fine or chalk like, it is not very useful as an eraser, so I need to change to my own predefined eraser, which involves multi clicks and moving the pen back and forth between the buttons. I would like to be able to make my own eraser and assign that to a button on my pen. That way, I could draw and erase without even lifting the pen from the screen, just as I can do in other graphic apps. Related to that, if I could assign a keyboard command to any brush, then the use of buttons on my pen would be limitless. That would be a great addition and, I think, pretty easy to fix.

You can do that (assign a keyboard command -- Erase -- to any brush ). By default the erase keyboard shortcut is F4 , but you can reassign that to another key in Preferences .

Assign Erase Keyboard shortcut F4.jpg (35.89 KiB) Viewed 31377 times

I program my Wacom stylus eraser end to keyboard command F4 = Erase . When I want to erase I flip the pen over -- just like I would with a real pencil -- and erase , then return to drawing .

On the Mac, there is a double set of menus at the top. Not the end of the world, but a bit odd. When I go to full screen, however, that second menu set keeps popping down, obscuring the TVPaint menu, which is annoying. I’ve not seen this behaviour on any other program on the Mac. I think that's because on other programs, the menu disappears in full screen, but here, it stays so you get two menus.

You can get rid of that in Preferences. Uncheck the box next to Use TVPaint Menu under Preferences > Interface .

Uncheck Use TVPaint Menu on Mac.jpg (46.83 KiB) Viewed 31377 times

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[David_Fine]

Thank you for the quick reply. The pref to fix the menu is great. Didn't notice that, so thanks!

The eraser suggestion doesn't work though (unless I am misunderstanding) because, as I mentioned, it will only turn it into an eraser which is the exact same as the pen currently in use. That doesn't work for me when I am using a very fine pen or some kind of pen which does not work so well as an eraser. I want to be able to define a specific eraser to a key, which does not change depending on the drawing brush I am using. This is how Photoshop and Sketchbook do it. Is there a way to do that in TVPaint?

[Sewie]

Hello David,

I find that new users often bring very insightful comments to the table when it comes to workflow issues in TVP. Things that more seasoned users have managed to find excuses and workarounds for that are necessary but often not most efficient. So by all means, keep posting your opinions and suggestions.

Regarding the eraser issue, have you tried this?; assign a keyboard shortcut to the eraser and then in the preference settings of your Wacom tablet assign that keyboard shortcut to the pen button of your choice.

EDIT: I just tested this on my Wacom. What happens is; the brush changes to the eraser, but doesn't switch back to the previous brush when I release the button. I see why this isn't very practical...

[Sewie]

Small thing, but I wish that when I use a pen, or brush, I could see a preview of the size of the brush I am about to draw with by way of a circle with a cross in it rather than just the cross. Essentially, exactly as Photoshop does it. I find that very useful in Photoshop as it confirms the brush size visually.

As I remember, this has been asked for a number of times, though I can't find the specific forum thread in which it was mentioned. But thanks for bringing it up again, hopefully the developers will put it on their todo list at some point.

Making my own buttons (or actions) and palettes is great and a vital part of organizing the things I need for specific tasks. I wish I could organize the buttons by dragging them around. Currently, there is no way of moving a button within the palette except to do multiple cut and paste, which is very tedious. Dragging a button to another palette or ALT dragging to copy it to another palette would be great! Also, when using a brush or button and changing some parameter, it would be good if a right click menu option were to update that action, or button. Right now I have to make a new button and then delete the old one. Not so terrible, but feels a bit clunky.

It's an interface code-issue that make this not (yet) possible in TVP as far as I've understood from the comment from the TVPaint team. Perhaps someone from the team can elaborate on that?

Shift S to save is counter to every other Mac application. Same with the warning box that comes up when you close a project, which is not like the standard "close without saving”. It’s a bit disconcerting to the Mac user, so using the convention every other app does on the Mac would be more intuitive.

You've hit upon an issue that has, in the past, led to heated discussions on this forum. A matter of conflicting philosophies (there are those who believe that TVP shouldn't be more like other software programs) and a question of what is practically possible in the current TVP interface code. But a clearer save requester when closing the project is in the pipeline, I believe...

Previewing from the current frame, or curser position is the most useful option so it would be great if that was on the transport bar rather than the one that plays from the beginning. I know I can make a button on a palette to do this, but using the transport right below the image is the most intuitive thing.

That's a feature request I would support.

[Mads Juul]

Small thing, but I wish that when I use a pen, or brush, I could see a preview of the size of the brush I am about to draw with by way of a circle with a cross in it rather than just the cross. Essentially, exactly as Photoshop does it. I find that very useful in Photoshop as it confirms the brush size visually.

Hi David
Welcome to the forum

Small thing, but I wish that when I use a pen, or brush, I could see a preview of the size of the brush I am about to draw with by way of a circle with a cross in it rather than just the cross. Essentially, exactly as Photoshop does it. I find that very useful in Photoshop as it confirms the brush size visually.

+1

I think I maybe have made a similar request here
http://forum.tvpaint.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3790
And if you read through this post you can see I have posted links to others who have requsted the same(I just added a link to this post.).

If you think it is the same request please give a +1 in my thread as i gave yours, and maybe we will se it implemented at some point.
Kind Regards Mads Juul

P.S. Excuse me if I'm to curious. Are you the David Fine who made Bob's Birthday with Alison Snowden?

[Sewie]

Mads, very strange but when I click your link I get a "You are not authorised to read this forum" message. Are you linking to the beta forum?

[Mads Juul]

Thank you Michael. The link should work now.

[Peter Wassink]

Hi David,

Welcome on the tvpaint forum.
the erase issue was also discussed here:
http://forum.tvpaint.com/viewtopic.php? ... =15#p72517" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The conclusion there was that you can have what you ask by assigning "eraser" to the rocker switch in the wacom panel.
but at the cost of losing RMB function in that switch, which among other things is often used for zooming, or erasing in filled strike mode.
But this problem in turn can be worked round by aplying the space bar, which is set as RMB.
Not ideal, but it might work for you.

[D.T. Nethery]

Thank you for the quick reply. The pref to fix the menu is great. Didn't notice that, so thanks!

The eraser suggestion doesn't work though (unless I am misunderstanding) because, as I mentioned, it will only turn it into an eraser which is the exact same as the pen currently in use. That doesn't work for me when I am using a very fine pen or some kind of pen which does not work so well as an eraser. I want to be able to define a specific eraser to a key, which does not change depending on the drawing brush I am using. This is how Photoshop and Sketchbook do it. Is there a way to do that in TVPaint?

I forgot to mention the thread that Peter Wassink referred to in his post :
http://forum.tvpaint.com/viewtopic.php? ... =15#p72517" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That has some other options.

One other thing I forgot to mention (because I just do it from habit) is if you use the standard Wacom stylus setting of the eraser end of the pen set to "Erase" the default size of the eraser will be 5.00 , BUT if you change it to a larger size , say 20.00 , it will retain that size every time you use it within the current project session. (unfortunately it defaults back to 5.00 if you quit and restart TVPaint, but very easy to reset it to larger size when you start a new TVPaint session)

change size of Eraser.jpg (35.84 KiB) Viewed 31275 times

Most of the time if I need the eraser to be larger than the default 5.00 I just press the Z key to zoom the size of the eraser tool up or down as needed. (or program one of the Wacom express keys to Z to activate the zoom tool size).


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[David_Fine]

Thanks for all the help with this. The tip about the eraser setting in the Wacom prefs is a good one as it does exactly what I was looking for. It changes to the eraser and pops back to the current brush, so that's fantastic, but it won't let me assign that function to any other key, but wait! I was wrong about the post from DT Nethery. I misunderstood (which, to be fair, I said that maybe I was!). Your suggestion works!! I was able to assign the eraser function to say, Command E and then assign that to the upper rocker button. When I press that switch, it goes to erase and remembers the size from the last time I used erase. When I release, it pops back to the previous drawing brush. Hurray! Thank you so much. For some reason, when I assign it to a button on the Cintiq, it works, but releasing does not revert back to the pen as it does with the rocker button, so not sure why that is.

Of course, there were other issues, but this is a great start!

Mads, I can't see how to give your thread a +1. Can you explain how? (And yes about Bob's B.)

[Mads Juul]

Mads, I can't see how to give your thread a +1.

It's not that fancy. Just write a reply to the topic with the text "+1" or where you otherwise state that you like the idea. I think it is important for the developers to see if other users are supporting the ode before they use energy to implement it.

If you reply a thread with multiple feature request (Like your own) You can use the "Quote" button on the top right next to the post you want to Quote and only use the single feature you want to support and wite +1. Something like thihs

I
Small thing, but I wish that when I use a pen, or brush, I could see a preview of the size of the brush I am about to draw with by way of a circle with a cross in it rather than just the cross. Essentially, exactly as Photoshop does it. I find that very useful in Photoshop as it confirms the brush size visually.

+1

-Mads

[David_Fine]

Done!

[Lukas]

There's a lot of things in your list that I fully agree with and that have been mentioned a few times no the forum in the past.

Small thing, but I wish that when I use a pen, or brush, I could see a preview of the size of the brush I am about to draw with by way of a circle with a cross in it rather than just the cross. Essentially, exactly as Photoshop does it. I find that very useful in Photoshop as it confirms the brush size visually.

+1 for brush size preview! In older topics this is usually replied with stating it's not useful in combination with pen pressure. But honestly, it just is.

Speaking of the brush, a really fundamental thing I am used to in other graphics apps is the ability to very quickly change between my drawing tool and my eraser of choice.

+1 for an eraser tool! All new users ask for this, and even after working with TVPaint for years I really miss a separate eraser tool with it's own size etc.

I wish I could organize the buttons by dragging them around. Currently, there is no way of moving a button within the palette except to do multiple cut and paste, which is very tedious.

+1 creating your own tools is very important in TVP, because the original ones are a hassle to work with, so easier management of them is important.

On the Mac, there is a double set of menus at the top.

+1, look at other mac apps, doing it differently is confusing and unnecessary.

Macs have track pads and they can be really useful so it would be great if pinching or twisting zoomed and rotated the artwork.

+1!

Shift S to save is counter to every other Mac application. Same with the warning box that comes up when you close a project, which is not like the standard "close without saving”. It’s a bit disconcerting to the Mac user, so using the convention every other app does on the Mac would be more intuitive.

+1, look at other mac apps, doing it differently is confusing and unnecessary. Also, <cmd>+<,> should be Preferences.

[Mads Juul]

I could see a preview of the size of the brushs

as stated +1

+1 for an eraser tool!

+1

I wish I could organize the buttons by dragging them around.

+1

Macs have track pads and they can be really useful so it would be great if pinching or twisting zoomed and rotated the artwork.

I'm not using Mac at this point but I would say +1 on other touch devices

On the Mac, there is a double set of menus at the top.
Shift S to save is counter to every other Mac application.

As I said I'm not using Mac at the moment. but when I had to switch for a project I was working on . It was confusing that TVPaint worked differently than the other Application on mac. even though I actually was used to Ctrl-S from windows.
I think I would have preferred CMD-S as a Temp Mac user. So +1


as Lucas wrote these issues have been discussed before. So I know the developers have noted these feature request and will choose to implement what they find reasonable at a reasonable time. So I'm not replying here to open this discussion again. Just to tell David he's not alone and judging from the previous discussions I think we at some point can see some of the features implemented .