x-sheet rooms crash

[D.T. Nethery]

I have some questions/feature requests about the X-sheet function:

When I open an existing project with several layers in the timeline if I switch to X-sheet view those layers are all present in the X-sheet columns on the left , all columns labeled "A" (Anim Layer) , but it's impossible to make any changes to those existing Anim Layer columns (I can't click and drag on the frames to change the exposures , can't copy or paste frames) . To make changes to the exposures I have to first create a new X-sheet layer and then select a Source layer in the right side of the X-sheet panel . After I copy & paste the Source layer to the new X-sheet layer it may now edited, with click & drag or copy/paste of images .

But the question is this: WHY are all the Anim layers already present in the X-sheet columns and those Anim Layer x-sheet layers are not editable ? Why have those present in the X-sheet columns to start with ? It seems more understandable if when the X-sheet panel is opened there are NO X-Sheet columns until the user clicks + to add a new X-sheet column, then the Source is selected for that new column and the drawings pasted to the new X-sheet column .

As it is the X-sheet columns area on the left becomes very cluttered , because all the existing Anim Layers are visible . (of course they can be minimized to free up space in the X-sheet column area , but I think it would be better if they could be hidden completely so the X-sheet column area is not cluttered )

Even if I start with a new blank project and import drawing Sequences as the Source layers there is still an extra blank Anim Layer in the X-sheet column which can't be deleted or moved. It seems like it would be easier to understand if the X-sheet area at the left is blank (no columns) until a new X-sheet column is created and a Source is selected to populate that new X-sheet column .

It's counter-intuitive , because the new user sees the Anim Layers already present in the X-sheet columns and assumes that those X-sheet columns (actually Anim Layers) can be edited with the Click & Drag, but many frustrating minutes/hours pass as the user must figure out that each layer must be re-created as a new X-sheet layer (choosing the Anim Layers as SOURCE layers in the right hand part of the X-sheet panel . )

Spoiler : :

Spoiler : :

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A feature request: When starting with a new TVPaint project , in the Source column , + Src , type: Sequence , import a drawing sequence , when those drawings appear in the source column they are numbered starting at 0 , then 1 , 2, 3, 4 , 5, 6, 7, 8 , etc. But the frame count starts at 1 , not 0 , so why is the first drawing in the sequence numbered as 0 ?

I would like it if there was a way to click on the Source layer and the user has options to Expose and Number drawings On 1's , On 2's , On 3's , On 4's, On 6's , On 8's , On 12's . So for example , if I import a sequence of nine drawings they initially appear on the Source column as 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, when I right-click on the Source column I can change Exposure to be "On 2's" and the drawing numbers will automatically be converted to standard X-sheet numbering for 2's : 1 , 3 , 5 , 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17 . For animators who use a traditional X-sheet and desire this function in TVPaint then this makes more sense .

An inconsistency I have noted : though the source layer drawings are automatically numbered starting at 0, like this - - - 0 , 1, 2, 3, 4 , 5, 6, 7 , 8 - - - however , when I copy and paste those to the X-sheet column they are changed to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 . It should be consistent so that the imported sequence of drawings on the Source column are numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 , 7, 8, 9 with no "0" in the numbering sequence on the Source layer. (Source layer Frame Count starts at 1 , but numbering starts at 0 .) This is one of those quirky inconsistencies in TVP that may seem like a small thing, but is a bit off-putting to the new user .

Spoiler : :

Another feature request for how the X-sheet handles the drawing numbers: when I have copied those drawings over to the X-sheet column , let's say that I change the exposure of drawing #1 to hold it for 8 frames , then it would be an advantage if the the X-sheet column numbering will automatically update to change the former drawing #3 to #9 , #5 to #11, #7 to #13, etc. so the numbering matches the frame count as on a traditional X-sheet. Therefore, by changing the exposure of drawing #1 to hold from frame 1 to frame 8, it means that the other drawing numbers should be updated to 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, 23 . Does that make sense ? I have no idea if this is possible , but it would be nice to have this automatic update based on the exposure (On 2's) and the frame count , rather than have it so that the user must manually change the numbers one at a time to update the numbering sequence. (the ability to manually update drawing numbers should be retained , to account for the occasional use of an eccentric drawing number , such as A-1a or New 9-a, New 9-b , New 9-c , when drawings are copied & pasted from other layers, but the default behavior of the X-sheet would be to automatically update the numbering based on the frame count and whether the drawings are exposed on 1's , 2's, 4's, or whatever . )

This is difficult to explain in words , but I hope the screen shots help to explain what I am asking:

Spoiler : :

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(in this last image , note that drawing A-23 holds for 12 frames . If a drawing is added after A-23 it would automatically be labeled as A-35 , to match the frame count which is at frame 35 after the 12 frame hold ends )

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Another feature request (which has been discussed previously , but I'm bringing it up again) :

Could the X-sheet view Thumbnails show the same view of the drawings as on the Timeline , so instead of each drawing being repeated on each frame of the X-sheet , we would see the actual exposure (on 2's or held for 8 frames or held for 12 frames , or whatever ) ?

Spoiler : :

Spoiler : :

Numbers only view of X-sheet might look like this:

Spoiler : :

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[ZigOtto]

hi David,

have you tried to switch on the [XS] button (which is for "Show only XSheet layers" ?

[ZigOtto]

Another feature request for how the X-sheet handles the drawing numbers: when I have copied those drawings over to the X-sheet column , let's say that I change the exposure of drawing #1 to hold it for 8 frames , then it would be an advantage if the the X-sheet column numbering will automatically update to change the former drawing #3 to #9 , #5 to #11, #7 to #13, etc. so the numbering matches the frame count as on a traditional X-sheet. Therefore, by changing the exposure of drawing #1 to hold from frame 1 to frame 8, it means that the other drawing numbers should be updated to 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, 23 . Does that make sense ? I have no idea if this is possible , but it would be nice to have this automatic update based on the exposure (On 2's) and the frame count , rather than have it so that the user must manually change the numbers one at a time to update the numbering sequence. (the ability to manually update drawing numbers should be retained , to account for the occasional use of an eccentric drawing number , such as A-1a or New 9-a, New 9-b , New 9-c , when drawings are copied & pasted from other layers, but the default behavior of the X-sheet would be to automatically update the numbering based on the frame count and whether the drawings are exposed on 1's , 2's, 4's, or whatever . )

...

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personnaly, I disagree with this new feature request (or maybe only optional), because it won't match my own workflow,
imo, the nb labelized in the XSheet layer should stay consistent with the Source drawings nb (that's XSheet nature),
whatever the exposition (nb of frames) for the 1rst instance (A1), the next instance should stay "A2", refering to the drawing following the A1 in the source column.
that said, I would like to have something like that (auto-renaming ability) for the Source side,
example :
I have an AnimLayer as Source, containing 4 drawings, A1, A2, A3, A4,
I set the timing leftside in the XSheet layer, f.i. (t=12i) :

Code: Select all

A1
-
-
-
A2
-
A3
-
A4
-
-
-

I decide to add an inbetween A2/A3, ... so once done, my Source sequence
should be now A1, A2, A3, A4, A5,
where A3 is my added new inbetween, old "A3" and "A4" being (auto-)re-labelized as A4 and A5,
and my XSheet column should be kept as it was left, but following the new renaming,
in my example :

Code: Select all

A1
-
-
-
A2
-
A4
-
A5
-
-
- 

then, the animator will just have to drag&drop his new "A3" drawing from the right-side (Source) column to the XSheet layer,
and insert it at the right place (between A2 and A4), + set/modify the exposition, f.i. [+1],
to get that :

Code: Select all

A1
-
-
-
A2
-
A3
-
A4
-
A5
-
-
- 

[D.T. Nethery]

that said, I would like to have something like that (auto-renaming ability) for the Source side,

Yes, that may be better , to have auto-naming on the Source side .

But I think I'd still prefer the option that if I change the timing on the X-sheet layer (say I decide to hold drawing 1 for 8 frames) that it would automatically rename all drawings according to the new positions to match the frame numbers . (so the drawing that comes after 1 , previously numbered as "2" or "3" would be automatically re-named "9" , because 1 has been held from frames 1 - to - 8 , and when the animation resumes at frame 9 the drawing number ( 9 ) should match the frame number .

[alfatoons]

Ohh my g-d!!!!!

I started to read and I gave up pretty quickly...

I do not even know what to say????

Well I guess the only thing I can say is, being a traditional animator growng up with the traditional X-sheet, (disney style and everywhere else style)
the timeline thingy is something I recall to be a flash thing when it just came out, way back. And everybody got hooked on that.

Starting to feel like a dinosaur

I still prefer the oldschool X-Sheet.
Just my humble opinion.

[alfatoons]

that said, I would like to have something like that (auto-renaming ability) for the Source side,

Yes, that may be better , to have auto-naming on the Source side .

But I think I'd still prefer the option that if I change the timing on the X-sheet layer (say I decide to hold drawing 1 for 8 frames) that it would automatically rename all drawings according to the new positions to match the frame numbers . (so the drawing that comes after 1 , previously numbered as "2" or "3" would be automatically re-named "9" , because 1 has been held from frames 1 - to - 8 , and when the animation resumes at frame 9 the drawing number ( 9 ) should match the frame number .

[D.T. Nethery]

Well I guess the only thing I can say is, being a traditional animator growng up with the traditional X-sheet, (disney style and everywhere else style)
the timeline thingy is something I recall to be a flash thing when it just came out, way back. And everybody got hooked on that.

And the horizontal Timeline works great ! IF I only have the horizontal Timeline in TVPaint I'm not unhappy. I use the horizontal timeline and don't really miss the vertical X-sheet too much ... BUT my point is that if the horizontal X-sheet view is going to continue to be an option in TVPaint it should function more like a traditional X-sheet (and mirror the functionality of the current horizontal Timeline , but in the vertical X-sheet format if the user prefers to use the X-sheet view. )

To me the "auto-numbering" (re-numbering) of each frame would be the big improvement in functionality for both the horizontal Timeline and vertical X-sheet view , so that the instances are numbered according to the desired exposure (either ON 2's or ON 1's ) and with a Prefix attached (for example the layer is named "A") , so a sequence of drawings exposed "ON 2's" on the A-layer would be automatically numbered in the traditional manner : A-1 , A-3, A-5, A-7, A-9 , A-11, A-13, A-15, A-17 , etc. (or for "ON 1's" it would be A-1 , A-2, A-3, A-4, A-5, A-6, A-7, A-8, A-9, A-10 , then if a section is on 2's it would continue as A-11, A-13, A-15 , A-17 , then resume on 1's as A-18, A-19, A-20, A-21, A-22, etc. )

And changing the exposure of A-1 to hold for 12 frames would mean that A-3 (the second drawing in the sequence) would automatically be re-numbered as A-13 (because the animation starts after the hold , beginning at frame 13) and subsequent drawings renumbered as A-15, A-17, A-19, A-21, etc. until you get to another hold at , say , A-47 , which holds to 14 frames until frame 60, then the numbering resumes at A-61, A-63, A-65 , A-67, etc. after the hold.

[alfatoons]

And the horizontal Timeline works great ! IF I only have the horizontal Timeline in TVPaint I'm not unhappy. I use the horizontal timeline and don't really miss the vertical X-sheet too much ... BUT my point is that if the horizontal X-sheet view is going to continue to be an option in TVPaint it should function more like a traditional X-sheet (and mirror the functionality of the current horizontal Timeline , but in the vertical X-sheet format if the user prefers to use the X-sheet view. )

"mirror the functionality of the current horizontal Timeline" Exactly Exactly Exactly!!!!!!

YES!!! Why not infact! So people have the choice, If they want to work horizontal or vertical. And not make things more complicated

[neonnoodle]

Yes, yes, yes! Take a look at how Toon Boom applies the X-sheet -- you have the ability to mark drawings, you have vertical timeline notes, you can add levels...
I find the X-sheet to be a better use of space than the Timeline in many situations. Plus, the vertical format makes it better stowed in a panel bin.

[alfatoons]