keyboard shortcuts mac/windows

[Lukas]

Personally (if you allow me to give my opinion), I prefer having more shortcut options because I'm on Mac, than having less shortcut options on my Mac just because Linux and Windows keyboard do not use Cmd keys.

Of course, you'd want both.

But when importing them on windows you need to lose some of them, because windows has less keys on the keyboard. So if you could choose, when switching from mac to windows, would you rather keep your CMD shortcuts or your CTRL shortcuts?
Currently, you lose the CMD shortcuts. But, I'd rather lose my CTRL shortcuts, as there aren't much of them (and probably this is true for most mac users).

Same thing the other way, when importing Windows shortcuts, would you rather have all things bound to CTRL on your mac-CTRL key and have an empty CMD key, or the other way around?

(Of course, editing in notepad works, but it's a workaround)

[Elodie]

(Of course, editing in notepad works, but it's a workaround)

Ok, so it also works for you (it's not the best solution but at least, this is a solution).

Let's see if other would be interested in such a behavior (turn ctrl into cmd and vice versa, following if you are on Windows / Linux or Mac) :]

[schwarzgrau]

A BIG +1 from me.

Joost came with a simple request "Please change the default keyboard shortcuts in the OSX version from CTRL to CMD" so that it would match every other piece of software on OSX. I'm not a developer, but it seems to me that this didn't need a developer at all. And he gets treated like some selfish idiot, which wants something unbelievable complex what only he needs.

I know TVPaint isn't Photoshop and you don't like Apple (me neither) and I can imagine it's a pain in the a... to follow their guidelines, but please don't mock us for this and keep open for suggestions, even if your todo-list is probably already a raw text file of 3GB.

[Elodie]

I'm not a developer, but it seems to me that this didn't need a developer at all. And he gets treated like some selfish idiot, which wants something unbelievable complex what only he needs.

Lukas Joost was not treated like a selfish idiot, even if I admitted using sarcasm at my earlier messages (please read the full conversation).
He was treated like any user who wants something which is nor something absolutely essential neither a priority.
I tried to find a bypass solution. As I said, it is not the solution he wants, but it is a solution.
Plus, following Lukas' post, there is some non-sense in its request :

Thanks that works, although now all my shortcuts seem to be double in the shortcut editor. (I know have Ctrl+S=Save AND Cmd+S=Save, and I used to have CMD+F=Free Transform and CTRL+F=FauxFixe, but now they are both Free Transform).
(The only reason I'm using CTRL+F is because I can't seem to check the CMD modifier with george btw, I'd rather only use cmd)

So, If I understand you well :

On your Mac, you are using Ctrl shortcuts and Cmd shortcuts, with differents options (For example : Cmd+F = free, while Ctrl+F = Faux-fixe).
You are using different options on these shortcuts but anyway, you would like TVPaint to understand by magic that Cmd shortcuts = Ctrl shortcuts when you are on a Windows, except if some Ctrl keys are already assigned to a feature.

Finally, Lukas proposed then to allow only CMD shortcuts on Mac and Ctrl shortcuts on Windows / Linux, but I didn't really agree this request, for the reasons below :

But anyway, it does not fixed the problem you underlined yourself : if people on Mac needs shortcuts on using Ctrl and shortcuts using Cmd, they will be annoyed to have only choice for Cmd.

Personally (if you allow me to give my opinion), I prefer having more shortcut options because I'm on Mac, than having less shortcut options on my Mac just because Linux and Windows keyboard do not use Cmd keys.

[Lukas]

The weird key is actually CTRL on mac. There is no Windows equivalent of it.

Basically, when importing/exporting shortcuts (or when you have TVPaint's preferences in a dropbox and load it from different machines);

From Windows to Mac:

(windows)CTRL = CMD
ALT = ALT
SHIFT = SHIFT
nothing = (mac)CTRL (you could still use it for shortcuts)

From Mac to Windows:

CMD = (windows)CTRL
ALT = ALT
SHIFT = SHIFT
(mac)CTRL = no long usable because there is no button available on the windows keyboard (they can still exist in the config file of course)

[Joost]

Lukas was not treated like a selfish idiot, even if I admitted using sarcasm at my earlier messages (please read the full conversation).
He was treated like any user who wants something which is nor something absolutely essential neither a priority.
I tried to find a bypass solution. As I said, it is not the solution he wants, but it is a solution.
Plus, following Lukas' own post, there is some non-sense in its request :

schwarzgrau was talking about me, not about Lukas. It was my request. I appreciate that Het sait that, because that was the same feeling I had. By the way, and I don't mind your sarcasm Elodie! Paul was the problem in this conversation, but he doesn't seem to understand this 'typical mac' problem.

But I still think that cmd and ctrl should be switched. Even if mac users can't use ctrl as a keyboard shortcut. I think Apple will never change this, so if tvpaint also doesn't change this, this wil ALWAYS be a problem. If you would switch it now, it will be a problem for mac users only once. After the switch Mac users will have the same keyboard opportunities as en windows user. Now we (mac users) have more keyboard shortcut opportunities. Because we have an extra button.

I understand it isn't easy to make this switch, but I think it will be important for the future of tvpaint in combination with mac users to at least think about it.

[Elodie]

@Lukas :
Okay, but actually, regarding TVPaint's CFG file, CTRL is just CTRL (no distinction between Mac or Windows) and CMD is just CMD. Or did I miss something ?

If we wanted to keep CTRL(mac) key for Mac users, this would be much more complex. I don't really see a solution to make sure CMD = CTRL on Windows and CTRL(mac) = nothing on Windows.
It's a real headache.

schwarzgrau was talking about me, not about Lukas.

Oops, sorry yes, I meant you, not Lukas...
I really need holidays....

But I still think that cmd and ctrl should be switched. Even if mac users can't use ctrl as a keyboard shortcut. I think Apple will never change this, so if tvpaint also doesn't change this, this wil ALWAYS be a problem. If you would switch it now, it will be a problem for mac users only once. After the switch Mac users will have the same keyboard opportunities as en windows user. Now we (mac users) have more keyboard shortcut opportunities. Because we have an extra button.

Sure, but as I said before, I would be afraid to disturb other people's configuration. I know some persons have shortcuts for almost everything. Let's give this request a longer time to decide, I'd like to have other Mac users' opinions.

[Lukas]

@Lukas :
Okay, but actually, regarding TVPaint's CFG file, CTRL is just CTRL (no distinction between Mac or Windows) and CMD is just CMD. Or did I miss something ?

If we wanted to keep CTRL(mac) key for Mac users, this would be much more complex. I don't really see a solution to make sure CMD = CTRL on Windows and CTRL(mac) = nothing on Windows.
It's a real headache.

Yeah correct.

Currently it's like:
(windows)CTRL = (mac)CTRL
ALT = ALT
SHIFT = SHIFT
nothing = CMD

But better would be:
(windows)CTRL = CMD
ALT = ALT
SHIFT = SHIFT
nothing = (mac)CTRL

Sorry if I'm repeating myself, it's just for clarity's sake.

I do understand changing this can be problematic and probably means changing the config file, but it would be good for people who work on different operating systems.

[schwarzgrau]

Lukas Joost was not treated like a selfish idiot, even if I admitted using sarcasm at my earlier messages (please read the full conversation).
He was treated like any user who wants something which is nor something absolutely essential neither a priority.
I tried to find a bypass solution. As I said, it is not the solution he wants, but it is a solution.

Oh I didn't talked specifically about you, but I guess that is something which you could read out of this post. His original request just sounds simple and logical to me, but he needed to explain and defend it over four forum pages.

Oops, sorry yes, I meant you, not Lukas...
I really need holidays....

poor Elodie

[Elodie]

His original request just sounds simple and logical to me, but he needed to explain and defend it over four forum pages.

He did not need 4 page to "defend" his request. 9 different persons (10 with you) posted messages, gave their opinion on that or this, add a comment or an explanation, etc... The topic grows quick because many people posted in it, that's all.
Each request can't be just concluded by a "OK, let's to do it". Sometimes, even something "obvious" or "simple" need some messages to be understood properly or to find a solution that could please most of people.

[furushil]

I always used TVpaint on Mac but recently had to use it on Windows. I imported my shortcuts and noticed that some CMD shortcuts did not work.

But I really don't see the problem here.
It is just like Mads said, I would just change the shortcuts on Windows and then save an extra file, one for Mac and one for Windows, then put two files into the dropbox or whatever. I mean, you just have to do this once, unless you are changing your shortcuts every week. If you create a new shortcut, just go to your windows version quickly change it there and save the file .
What is the point of this discussion

[Lukas]

Different projects sometimes require different shortcuts. So changing happens more often than you'd think.

Other software I use is able to sync shortcuts trough either a dropbox (Anime Studio) or their own cloud system (Adobe products). It's really nice to start the software anywhere and be sure every shortcut is set the same way on each machine without the extra manual notepad and export/import labour.

[furushil]

Different projects sometimes require different shortcuts.

You have different shortcuts for different projects, really ? How do you mean that?

[Elodie]

Other software I use is able to sync shortcuts trough either a dropbox (Anime Studio) or their own cloud system (Adobe products). It's really nice to start the software anywhere and be sure every shortcut is set the same way on each machine without the extra manual notepad and export/import labour.

We could share shortcuts through the share manager so.
I will ask developers, but it looks possible to me.

[Lukas]

Other software I use is able to sync shortcuts trough either a dropbox (Anime Studio) or their own cloud system (Adobe products). It's really nice to start the software anywhere and be sure every shortcut is set the same way on each machine without the extra manual notepad and export/import labour.

We could share shortcuts through the share manager so.
I will ask developers, but it looks possible to me.

The Share Manager is only for local networks, right?
Surely, I'm not the only one with a work and home setup that are not on a local network together (And they're never both on at the same time either because of the dongle).

Of course it would be nice for in the studio, but if all machines could simply on startup load the same shortcuts and panels from a dropbox like system, it would be better.