keyboard shortcuts mac/windows

[Mads Juul]

I think Joost and Lukas have a point here.

Ctrl is Cmd on Mac. And when Exporting keyboard short cuts from Windows to Mac. i dont think it is insane to expect automatic Convertion of Ctrl to Cmd.
But Elodie also have a point about Mac users using CTRl+Cmd. I dont know I dont use Mac myself.

But then again it if it only is about the keyboard shortcuts. It doesn't seem to be that hard to build one keyboard short cut for mac and one for Windows.
And judging from the reaction from the developers it seems like a faster solution

[Elodie]

If I export my keyboard shortcuts on my mac machine (I'll attach the file to this post), and import them on a windows machine (I work on a windows laptop when I need to work outside of the studio), my CMD+S save shortcut disappears. Of course I can create a new CTRL+S save shortcut on the windows machine, but when I export the shortcuts again and import them on my mac machine, even CMD+S is no longer there. Only Ctrl+S (which is counter intuitive on a mac!!!).

I'm not sure to understand the problem. Anyway, I loaded your file and did what I advised you above (except I copied cmd + something and overwrote ctrl + something, then changed the cmd in ctrl.)

Please find the file attached.

Lukaskeymapmac.cfg.zip

(2.77 KiB) Downloaded 1133 times

We tested it on Mac, Windows and Linux : everything worked.
(And I needed less than 1min to do so)

[Fabrice]

Paul,

If you don't use a mac computer, you won't understand our problem. Do please stay out of this discussion.

Should I stay out the discussion too ?

If so, noone at TVPaint is really interested in the discussion as we use to switch our (Windows, Mac, Linux, Android) OS very often.

[Joost]

Should I stay out the discussion too ?

YES!
No, of course not, but only people who are helping the discussion in the right way (and take the problems we come across serious) should interfere in my opinion.
Why would you react on a discussion if it has nothing to do with you?

[Lukas]

Paul, we have 10 different machines here (PC, mac and linux), replacing them all at once is expensive and completely unnecessary.

So you made an error buying different kind of computers and we should fix it now ?

Best customer support I've ever received! Yes, please buy us new machines! Awesome! <3

If I export my keyboard shortcuts on my mac machine (I'll attach the file to this post), and import them on a windows machine (I work on a windows laptop when I need to work outside of the studio), my CMD+S save shortcut disappears. Of course I can create a new CTRL+S save shortcut on the windows machine, but when I export the shortcuts again and import them on my mac machine, even CMD+S is no longer there. Only Ctrl+S (which is counter intuitive on a mac!!!).

I'm not sure to understand the problem. Anyway, I loaded your file and did what I advised you above (except I copied cmd + something and overwrote ctrl + something, then changed the cmd in ctrl.)

Please find the file attached.

Lukaskeymapmac.cfg.zip

We tested it on Mac, Windows and Linux : everything worked.
(And I needed less than 1min to do so)

Thanks that works, although now all my shortcuts seem to be double in the shortcut editor. (I know have Ctrl+S=Save AND Cmd+S=Save, and I used to have CMD+F=Free Transform and CTRL+F=FauxFixe, but now they are both Free Transform).
(The only reason I'm using CTRL+F is because I can't seem to check the CMD modifier with george btw, I'd rather only use cmd)

Still...why can't the mac import button simply replace ctrl with cmd and vice versa?

[Paul Fierlinger]

Why would you react on a discussion if it has nothing to do with you?

It has more to do with more people than apparently you have the capacity to imagine. How many people? Almost everyone who works with TVP and are vying for the attention and time of the overworked developers to implement more useful (useful to ALL) items on the growing To Do list.

[Fabrice]

Why would you react on a discussion if it has nothing to do with you?

Because I don't like when someone use to be rude with both users and the dev team.

[Joost]

Because I don't like when someone use to be rude with both users and the dev team.

I didn't try to be rude. I was just mentioning a bug in your software. I started to be straight forward when somebody (who isn't a developer for as far as I know) didn't take my complaint serious.

[Joost]

This is no personal matter. I just mentioned a bug in your software and kindly ask you to solve this problem.
It would be great if you could fix it for everybody who is working on different systems!

[Elodie]

Thanks that works, although now all my shortcuts seem to be double in the shortcut editor. (I know have Ctrl+S=Save AND Cmd+S=Save, and I used to have CMD+F=Free Transform and CTRL+F=FauxFixe, but now they are both Free Transform).
(The only reason I'm using CTRL+F is because I can't seem to check the CMD modifier with george btw, I'd rather only use cmd)

So, If I understand you well :

On your Mac, you are using Ctrl shortcuts and Cmd shortcuts, with differents options (For example : Cmd+F = free, while Ctrl+F = Faux-fixe).
You are using different options on these shortcuts but anyway, you would like TVPaint to understand by magic that Cmd shortcuts = Ctrl shortcuts when you are on a Windows, except if some Ctrl keys are already assigned to a feature.



Really, I don't get the point of that conversation :
• a by-pass solution has been found, which is easy and fast to apply (if you don't mind having twice the same shortcut in Cmd and Ctrl version) ;
• as Eric said, Cmd + Ctrl + something can be assigned : how would we convert them on Windows / Linux ?
• as Paul said, we have other priorities than spending weeks just to allow Joost, Trumpatrick and you to save 1 min. (Looks like you are working together among the same studio... )

I started to be straight forward when somebody (who isn't a developer for as far as I know) didn't take my complaint serious.

You may use my name instead of calling me "somebody".

In a way, you are right, I was the first person to use sarcasm in that conversation, and I'm sorry for that. Anyway, it's not because I am not a developer that I do not know what their work means. Actually, I know it better than you do and my speech is as right and significant than developers' ones.

And if you are talking about Paul : he is a TVPaint beta-tester for 15 years. He is probably the most aware person here able to tell you if something has sense to be done in TVPaint or not (or not immediately, at least).

Plus, when something is not working as you wish, it does not mean it is a bug : here, there is not bug at all, TVPaint behaves following the CFG file. CFG file says "Ctrl keys = free", TVPaint obeys. =)
(Or did I miss something ?)

[Joost]

You may use my name instead of calling me "somebody".

I didn't refer to you. I meant Paul.

[Joost]

Ok, it is maybe not a bug. But when creating the mac version the developers maybe "forgot" that ctrl = cmd on the mac.

I understand that it is hard to change this. But the most important question for me right now is: do you understand my problem, and is it possible to at least take a look at it in new versions of tvpaint?

[Paul Fierlinger]

My answer was placed with all respect to the seriousness of the request. I was seriously upset when you said, and I paraphrase here, that your request will probably upset a lot of the other Mac users because they will all have to change their key commands that they have grown used to because you want it that way right now because you cannot change your own ways. In cases such as yours, most people here first ask other users if they would agree with your request.

But as a member of a small studio, don't you have any compassion with the efforts of a small development team before you ask for a change that would, as you made clear you are aware of, require lots of work and time to implement? I always take your self centerdness very seriously. My suggestion that you unify your computers was a serious response. I once ran a studio of my own about the size of yours. You don't have to replace all the computers at the same time and honestly, PCs are not all that expensive anymore, at least not for a small commercial outfit such as yours.

[Joost]

In cases such as yours, most people here first ask other users if they would agree with your request.

Of course they don't agree. Including me. It is really annoying to change all your keyboard shortcuts. But it will be better for everyone eventually. You can't disagree with that. Everybody has to change the keyboard shortcuts only once. And they can keep all the shortcuts they always have used. The only thing is that the basic setting should be that cmd and ctrl have to be switched. All the other software did it right, except tvpaint.

[Thierry]

But the most important question for me right now is: do you understand my problem, and is it possible to at least take a look at it in new versions of tvpaint?

I do understand the issue.

I agree that having a button that switches the CMD to Ctrl could be nice, but there are a few things to consider before implementing it.
What if you have come shortcuts that use only Ctrl ? For example, Lukas uses Ctrl + F for Faux Fixe and CMD + F for Free Transform. The button would change Ctrl + F to Free Transform, yes, but what about the shortcut for Faux Fixe ? What would happen to it ? Would it disappear ? Should we transfer it to another key ?