They call it AFTER Effects for a reason..

[Joost]

Lukas wrote:
Hold <alt> for colorpicker pick, release <alt> to go back to previous tool


Not possible

Why Not?

svengali wrote a script thats almost the same as this request:
http://forum.tvpaint.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6852" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

it's almost a good solution, but the photoshop version works much better (in my opinion)
So I'm curious why it's impossible to create a color picker that works the same as the photoshop color picker.

[Lukas]

Colorring with previous color, current color during picking.

What do you mean ? O_o

If you pick a color in photoshop a ring appears around the cursor, showing the color you're currently using in the bottom half of the circle. And the color you're picking in the top half of the circle. It's very handy to see small color differences.

Editing a group to edit all layers (Transform for example)

Already done

Cool! How?

Use a clipping mask on a group

Could you explain more ?

See image attached (sorry, it's a layer mask, PS can't do a clipping mask on a group, but it would be better)

You can use color labels seperately from groups

Do you mean the color groups for clips or image marker ?
If so, I agree with you, but I don't know if it's possible.

I mean groups and colors are not the same thing, groups are more like folders in photoshop. (which is nicer)

Eraser:
In TVP you can erase with a regular brush (which is cool!), but if there would ALSO be an eraser it would be able to remember its settings. So if you’ve made your eraser bigger, and go back to a brush, make the brush smaller, and go back to the eraser, the eraser would still be bigger.

Too intrusive. It depends on the way people work. For example, someone who just want to erase a little line in a drawing won't agree with your "bigger eraser"

You could have both. But if you'd put the eraser on Draw mode 'color' it gets confusing, I guess it would mean having two draw/erase/animbrushes/everything/tools available. Each remembering its own settings instead of only 1.

Brush size:
In Photoshop you can see the size of your brush in the cursor. Even if it’s pressure sentive.

Personally, it makes me nut. You see a big shape and finally, you draw a tiny little dot... That's unsane

Have you tried this in Photoshop?
Having a big shape and drawing a tiny little dot will never happen. I'm sure anyone who's worked in Photoshop misses this feature in TVPaint. I highly doubt it drives anyone nuts or insane...

And can easily adjust the size with [ and ]. (Adjusting brush size in TVP with shortcuts doesn’t work very well)

Never had any problem by using the mouse scrolling or + and - or the hotkey Z....

I've always had problems, but I'll try again.
I'm just saying it works nicer and more intuitive in PS. Also, it's great you can see the size of the cursor change.

It's just like when you load a JPG in Flash and then, rotate it in Flash : you won't lose quality neither, just because the image is now considered as a vectorial object.
Layers in TVPaint are 100% bitmap and so, if you modify pixels, you lose quality, especially if you don't use AAliasing modes.

The example image that was rotated 6 times was also hard pixels in Photoshop. I don't know why the difference is so big. AAliasing was used in TVP and it still ends up looking like this.

About all the things not possible in the current way TVPaint works. I fully understand that, but it's something to think about for the future. TVPaint is starting to feel outdated because of many of these things which you'd just expect to be possible since we're all working on expensive machines in 2013 and other software can do most of these things easily.

[slowtiger]

I feel obligated to defend TVP although I had some very hard moments to adapt to its very different way of doing things. (But Blender is much worse to learn!)

1. TVP is an animation program. Photoshop is not. I want TVP optimized for animation, not for something else. And you know that you can only optimize in one direction. Everything else is nice, but not crucial.
2. TVP is bitmap. It's fast as hell with a shitload of bitmaps, faster than PS. Internal memory organization must be great. It's nice when you work on an expensive machine from 2013, but I bet most of us don't (I don't).
3. TVP is adult now. I can't think of many new functions I really miss. I'd like to see a general makeover to make things easier, have a better translaton (english, especially in the manual), optimize the GUI.

PS has set a standard, but that doesn't mean every other software should have the same set of functions. I really like PS' way of doing certain things - selections and transform tool are superior to TVP IMO - but remember that you can't just copy everything from Adobe. Not because of programming, but because of patent lawyers.

[Lukas]

I'm not saying TVP should be the same as PS. Fabrice asked what else I thought worked better in PS and I answered. I just want TVP to become better each update, and looking at better things never hurts.

[Sewie]

Very interesting discussion!

And yes, TVP is great and we are all very thankful for the features and the possibilities that it offers the modern day animator but I have to say that I am very often annoyed when someone mentions new possibilities and very valid points to improve the software, forum members rush in to say that TVPaint is good enough as it is and people shouldn't complain. I find this a very non-constructive attitude that in no way contributes to making this, (I'll say it again) already GREAT software, BETTER! I see these discussion as a way of IMPROVING the software and not as venting complaints.

Lukas has made some really good points here. I have to say that I agree with many of them. Especially the 'rotate scale degradation- issue'. I understand the bitmap argument but it would be good if a solution could be found to somehow to solve this issue.

[Lukas]

And yes, TVP is great and we are all very thankful for the features and the possibilities that it offers the modern day animator but I have to say that I am very often annoyed when someone mentions new possibilities and very valid points to improve the software, forum members rush in to say that TVPaint is good enough as it is and people shouldn't complain. I find this a very non-constructive attitude that in no way contributes to making this, (I'll say it again) already GREAT software, BETTER! I see these discussion as a way of IMPROVING the software and not as venting complaints.

Very well said, I feel exactly the same.

[Elodie]

if you pick a color in photoshop a ring appears around the cursor, showing the color you're currently using in the bottom half of the circle. And the color you're picking in the top half of the circle. It's very handy to see small color differences.

Ok

Cool! How?

apply on.jpg (19.2 KiB) Viewed 38149 times

And you have the same feature in the FX stack.

See image attached (sorry, it's a layer mask, PS can't do a clipping mask on a group, but it would be better)

Ok. Interesting indeed.

Have you tried this in Photoshop?
Having a big shape and drawing a tiny little dot will never happen. I'm sure anyone who's worked in Photoshop misses this feature in TVPaint. I highly doubt it drives anyone nuts or insane...

As I don't have Photoshop, I have screenshot a random video from youtube.

tool shape.jpg (6.24 KiB) Viewed 38149 times

Do you see what I mean ?
The shape of the tool is like this : O
while the lines are thin like this : _____

And this is for me one of the weirder behaviour I have ever seen in drawing / painting software (PS is not he only one).
That's just my humble opinion, not TVPaint's opinion. But for me it has no sense : you see a big shape and in fact, if your pen is connected to the pressure, you have a total different rendering.

If you compare that to TVPaint, the pressure is not the only parameter that may change your brush shape. What if you have an anim brush ?

You see, the solution is not easy

I mean groups and colors are not the same thing, groups are more like folders in photoshop. (which is nicer)

Impossible in the current structure of TVPaint. That's why you have the color groups and no folders.

I'm just saying it works nicer and more intuitive in PS.

In what hitting [ or ] is intuitive to increase / decrease the size ?

Please admit here it is more habits than intuition

Especially the 'rotate scale degradation- issue'. I understand the bitmap argument but it would be good if a solution could be found to somehow to solve this issue.

I agree too, you know

I feel obligated to defend TVP although I had some very hard moments to adapt to its very different way of doing things. (But Blender is much worse to learn!)

1. TVP is an animation program. Photoshop is not. I want TVP optimized for animation, not for something else. And you know that you can only optimize in one direction. Everything else is nice, but not crucial.
2. TVP is bitmap. It's fast as hell with a shitload of bitmaps, faster than PS. Internal memory organization must be great. It's nice when you work on an expensive machine from 2013, but I bet most of us don't (I don't).
3. TVP is adult now. I can't think of many new functions I really miss. I'd like to see a general makeover to make things easier, have a better translaton (english, especially in the manual), optimize the GUI.

PS has set a standard, but that doesn't mean every other software should have the same set of functions. I really like PS' way of doing certain things - selections and transform tool are superior to TVP IMO - but remember that you can't just copy everything from Adobe. Not because of programming, but because of patent lawyers.

Thank you slowtiger

By the way, be sure we will do our best for the translations on the user guide.
Translating a 500 pages user guide has a huge cost and so, unfortunately, we have to do everything by ourselves =/

Rewriting the user guide in French and English for the version 9 has taken to me 3 complete months. And I only had to rewrite the from part 1 to 10, as nothing really changed fot he FX.

We will surely release an updated version of the User guide in September. So, it will be an ideal moment to check everything (typos, bad English, etc...)

I'll open a topic about "mistakes in the user guide"

[Joost]

3. TVP is adult now. I can't think of many new functions I really miss. I'd like to see a general makeover to make things easier, have a better translaton (english, especially in the manual), optimize the GUI.

Then maybe I have the perfect solution for you : maybe you can keep using tvpaint 9 or 10 forever, then the rest of us can try to improve the program by giving our input to the TVPaint team...
In my opinion TVPaint is a great program, but there is much to improve!

[Elodie]

Change is the proper of the life. What is motionless is dead

[Lukas]

Have you tried this in Photoshop?
Having a big shape and drawing a tiny little dot will never happen. I'm sure anyone who's worked in Photoshop misses this feature in TVPaint. I highly doubt it drives anyone nuts or insane...

As I don't have Photoshop, I have screenshot a random video from youtube.

tool shape.jpg

Do you see what I mean ?
The shape of the tool is like this : O
while the lines are thin like this : _____

And this is for me one of the weirder behaviour I have ever seen in drawing / painting software (PS is not he only one).
That's just my humble opinion, not TVPaint's opinion. But for me it has no sense : you see a big shape and in fact, if your pen is connected to the pressure, you have a total different rendering.

If you compare that to TVPaint, the pressure is not the only parameter that may change your brush shape. What if you have an anim brush ?

You see, the solution is not easy

I do hope there's Photoshop installed somewhere in the office? There's so much "in PS it goes like this..." on the forum, it must be worth checking out.

Of course a solution isn't always easy. But surely not impossible.

Here's an example of pressing a shortcut to resize first in PS, then in TVP. The visual feedback of brush size changes without having to set a stroke is really nice as you can see.
[qt]480,242,http://www.lukaskrepel.nl/temp/TVP/brushsize.mov[/qt]

[Elodie]

Here are 2 examples with a custom brush :

Pressure active :

[qt]928,600,http://www.tvpaint.com/forum_attachment ... essure.mov[/qt]

Pressure unactive :

[qt]993,655,http://www.tvpaint.com/forum_attachment ... essure.mov[/qt]

Another example with the PenBrush :

[qt]943,526,http://www.tvpaint.com/forum_attachment/penbrush.mov[/qt]

So really, I don't get your problem, everything is working fine for me

[Lukas]

Elodie, in your video I can see the brush is following the cursor when you're not drawing.
Is it a settings somewhere?
I never see my brush while drawing, only the cursor. Am I missing something?
Also, how do you get the circle when resizing the pen tool?

[Sewie]

Is this a new feature? Because it doesn't happen on my set up...

[ZigOtto]

Elodie, in your video I can see the brush is following the cursor when you're not drawing.
Is it a settings somewhere?
I never see my brush while drawing, only the cursor. Am I missing something?

I think it's always the case (brush following the cursor) when the size is not connected,
I mean steady size, not varying with any connection such as Pressure or so,
try to draw with a custombrush using the mouse, it does exactly the same,
the brush stay sticked following the cursor, even when you're not drawing.

if you really want to see a custombrush with Size connected to Pressure following the cursor when not drawing,
you can try this old trick :

cbrushpreview.png (5.65 KiB) Viewed 38074 times

[qt]1140,640,http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/25/ ... review.mov[/qt]

[Lukas]

Nice trick ZigOtto, I think this behaviour should be an option without 'hacking' the profile editor.

(Still, I have to say, the way Photoshop shows an outline of the brush is nicer, because you can see it wherever you are, in TVP if you have a black background and a black brush, you won't be able to see the size of your brush)

edit:

I discovered ZigOtto's trick works even better if you do the same with Opacity (I have a 100% opacity brush for cleaning in black, but now the brush previews with 50%, see attached image)