Layer window zoom

[Joost]

I asked this before but I think it's worth it to ask it again:

It would be really handy to be able zoom further into thumbnails of your layer window so you would be able to see what you have drawn in every frame.
Now I see just a lot of white frames with some pixels in it. If you compare the layers to the project window you can see the difference. In the project window you are able to see what you have drawn, in the layer window it's impossible.

[Joost]

Next example:

[Paul Fierlinger]

It sounds like a natural to want to have a better view of individual frames, all lined up and from beginning to end and this is something you can actually do in all the better NLEs. But the fact is, that I never do it and I doubt you would find the advantage you are hoping to get out of such a feature either. This is because once you get that close, you won't find much more than what's in the preview window to find by scrubbing just a little to the left and right. Once your timeline frames are as large as you envisage them, you can't have that many on the screen and you loose perspective of where you are in your clip.

The timeline serves another purpose, which is to see where you are in relationship to all the other layers, including the graphic waveform on your sound track, and to have an idea how far you are into your clip, which is to say, you need more often to see your start frame, current frame, and last frame, than you need to have a good look at 10 or 12 frames next to each other.

I'm not trying to say that it would be absolutely useless to be able to zoom in that close, because on rare occasions I do do it in Vegas -- but those times are really rare, and they are usually when I am looking for a more precise placement of an edit, but not to have a closer inspection of my individual drawings.

But I do wonder if something like a trimmer window effect could come in useful within TVPaint -- let's say having the ability to turn the preview window into a trimmer view of the timeline equivalent to bringing a magnifying glass close to a strip of film in the analogue world.

[Sewie]

...
It would be really handy to be able zoom further into thumbnails of your layer window so you would be able to see what you have drawn in every frame.
Now I see just a lot of white frames with some pixels in it. If you compare the layers to the project window you can see the difference. In the project window you are able to see what you have drawn, in the layer window it's impossible.

+1.
I have often find myself wishing this option was available, especially when working with tiny details on different layers. Like eye blinks for example.

[Svengali]

Another way to look at it.

Right now you can open any number of new windows for the current frame of the current project, each window assigned a different zoom factor of the visible layers stacked in the current frame. A little rewrite of that multi-window capability and...

Imagine if they were grouped into a NEW, CUSTOM LAYER VIEWER PANEL which consists of STACKED VERTICAL THUMBNAILS? each would individually display the first, second, third, or other layer of the CURRENT FRAME. Advancing through the project would advance all these thumbnail layers in sync with the currently visible frame.

Perhaps the user could even control which thumbnail layers would be displayed simply by HIDING all layers except those he was working on or wanted to view.

Sven

[Paul Fierlinger]

Sven, this is what I meant by "trimmer" window. I like this approach better because I think one needs to have an overall perspective of all the layers at all times. With this system we would have four perspectives constantly in our view: The Preview window, all the layers, the navigation viewer, and the detailed window.

[Svengali]

paul,
This week I've been customizing room four, set up for still image layer management and masks. I have the TimeLine Panel floating vertical on the right side of the screen (as shown) and next to that is a little custom panel with individual buttons to manage masks and toggle stencils, and generate or merge new layers as needed, while drawing.

I think maybe I got the idea for a new custom panel for vertical thumbnail layers from looking at the Timeline panel turned vertical. Admittedly the thumbnails are very small, but you can still read the contents of each layer for the current frame.

Sven

Alternate Vertical TimeLine Panel.jpg (59.31 KiB) Viewed 27604 times

[Sewie]

Would that require the user to open yet another custom panel? I don't know, not all of us have a 4+ monitor setup... For those of us working on cintiqs, for example, screen space is quite precious, so why not use the thumbnails in the layers?

Those thumbnails that are now completely white (because of the small drawings in them) are a waste of space if you ask me. They are meant to display what's in the corresponding frame so why not do just that?

[Paul Fierlinger]

You are right, Michael. I have no strong personal interests in this subject and should drop out as a participant. Truthfully, I don't see how having a better view of what drawing is in the timeline frame can make a difference on my productivity. I just wanted to contribute as one voice of the opposition; mission accomplished.

[Lukas]

I agree with Sewie.

With the non HD Cintiqs, you only have a 1600*1200 resolution...

I prefer not having to work with multiple displays that way I'm more focused on the actual animation process. So screenspace is precious. I almost always have very few panels open. I'd also like to hide some more stuff. If there's anything done to the timeline, please take this into account. Here's a screenshot showing some more pixels that could be used better.

[ematecki]

I can see an error in your Lichtbak custom panel, the icon in the bottom middle should be called 0-3 instead of 3-0 :)

But what does it do ?

[Lukas]

I can see an error in your Lichtbak custom panel, the icon in the bottom middle should be called 0-3 instead of 3-0

But what does it do ?

Oops

They're shortcuts to some light table settings I frequently need. First I tried using the LT bin, but selecting the settings trough the drop down menu was a bit tedious. So I made this.

[ematecki]

OK, thanks.

[Joost]

Maybe this screen capture (of my 27inch Imac where I keep al my layers) also helps to understand why I want to see what I have drawn (I have drawn in every single frame here, the only problem is, I cant' see anything!!):

[Elodie]

Just a prenthesis : I lvoe the icon you did for your panel with brushes and eraser :3

@ Joost : Wow O_o
What do you animate ? ants ?
(Just kidding :p)