"Layers" Light Table mode

[Soom]

I have seen some interesting suggestions on improving the light table, but not this one:
I would like to be able to turn on the Light Table to show a number of front or back layers on the same frame. This would be extremely useful together with Off-Peg transformation function for check-ups. For example if I want to check my character against the model, which, as usual, is on another layer, it would be extremely easier with this option. I find that I need this function quite often...

[Elodie]

Hmm, you can already use the LT on several layers, but any change will affect all layers.
I'm not sure to understand your need, would you have a concrete image ?

[Fabrice]

I think I got it, but that would complexify the lighttable options.

IMO it would be more convenient to have a reference image as a guide.

[Elodie]

I think too.

(I also got it, but I wanted to be sure, especially because, as you said Fabrice, that would complexify the LT a lot !)

[Soom]

I personally don't see a complexity here.
The light table can have one more option "layers". By turning it on, the light table will only show a current (always the current) frame so many layers up or down, as setup in the light table. Basically layers will just represent a real light table, with papers stacking behind and in front of a current layer instead of right or left of timeline...
The only thing is that this option should override the light tables enabled for individual layers and treat every layer as a "sheet" on the light table.

Using reference drawings is Ok, but it really takes more time than the off peg function, which is fast and non-destructive.

[Fabrice]

a reference drawing that could be rotated and scaled.

We had the same request from a studio (not through the forum), and after discussions and quick tests, the lighttable solution was not working, and really confusing the users.
Guides are better believe me.
We are working on it.

[Soom]

a reference drawing that could be rotated and scaled.

We had the same request from a studio (not through the forum), and after discussions and quick tests, the lighttable solution was not working, and really confusing the users.
Guides are better believe me.
We are working on it.

Aha, so I'm not the only one
Well, in this case maybe there could be a separate "light table" for this ? just an idea...

[Elodie]

Well, in this case maybe there could be a separate "light table" for this ? just an idea...

Errr... Nope.

[Soom]

a reference drawing that could be rotated and scaled.

Old thread, but I just run into this difficulty again and again, so I will just add more thoughts. A reference drawing is quite unhelpful: first, after several transformations it becomes so blurry, that I can't work with it any more, and need to create a new ref drawing, and second, which is the main problem - If I need to temporary move/rotate the drawing so, that it cuts at the edges of the frame, I can't bring it back anymore, which means I need to create again a new ref. drawing.
As a workaround, I paste the ref drawing to the working layer, and create a new frame with it, and then use light table for off pegs transformation. This is still a slow and not very convenient process...

[Fabrice]

yep, we are aware of it, even if the solution won't probably be implemented in the v10 engine.
but it's in the TODO list, waiting to be developped and bugfixed.

[Soom]

yep, we are aware of it, even if the solution won't probably be implemented in the v10 engine.
but it's in the TODO list, waiting to be developped and bugfixed.

Oh, cool - I thought this was rejected

[Fabrice]

yep, we are aware of it, even if the solution won't probably be implemented in the v10 engine.
but it's in the TODO list, waiting to be developped and bugfixed.

Oh, cool - I thought this was rejected

no no.
I can write here a word once it's developped (so you will be sure that we didn't forget you ), but I don't expect the release before TVPaint Animation 11.

[Soom]

Very old request, and I still do not see any progress on it. So bumping up my suggestion again - any thoughts? Adding a Layers Mode option in the Light table panel menu still feels like the most intuitive option to me.

Screenshot 2024-03-27 at 15.39.22.png (55.92 KiB) Viewed 7075 times

[Peter Wassink]

i must say even after reading this thread i don't fully understand what this would add that can not already be done?
i also find the name "mode layer" very confusing as layers are orientated vertically while all the other options are all referring to horizontal units.

[kelanhordos]

I wonder if there was some misunderstandings in reading this thread. I had a similar workflow before where I was importing my reference images on a separate layer and found it extremely cumbersome to go to the layer to adjust the ref, and ran into issues with the image becoming pixelated after rotating or scaling as well as other things. I switched to using guideline>add>support>image and importing my reference that way and it has helped tremendously. Especially setting a shortcut to quickly toggle on/off all references, and another to quickly enter guidelines>edit, allows for quick repositioning.

Several problems I still run into with this method is if you want to draw over top of these same references, or bring them into a layer to adjust/draw on them quickly(say if you are demonstrating something to someone) you need to go through several steps which is more cumbersome.

Maybe it would need another separate thread(and I believe they have been brought up before elsewhere) but the improvements that could help would be:

-a quick way to import your guideline image as a custombrush, and vice versa if you wanted to edit your guideline image and quickly replace the current guideline, without having to export it again through the file export.

Some quality of life settings regarding guideline images as references would also be the following

-ability to set a shortcut to flip horizontally or vertically the guideline image.

-Also being able to reset rotation with a shortcut as sometimes slightly rotating it is annoying 0 out if you have a lot of guideline references

-Some way to quickly highlight/access your reference in the guideline box, so you can adjust the opacity quicker(as this is currently the only method of "drawing" over top of your ref)

If the above is not available by shortcut, being able to access the options that are in the guideline menu with a right click would be super helpful

Sorry if this is irrelevant, but I think I understand Soom's problem, because it was one I had until this past year, and I found it extremely frustrating. Other programs like photoshop, or toon boom allow the infinite canvas, or their quick selecting of elements and the ability to move them offers a way around this, but this is the closest thing I've found in TVpaint.