animated toast

[User767]

Not that it's all that great, but at least it's different. OK Go-same sentiments.



(couldn't figure out how to embed something here, so it's just the link)

[Elodie]

Code: Select all

[youtube]VIDEOID(in your case, it's IkYfB1C0Zgc)[/youtube]

Normally, this forum is dedicated to TVPaint users' art. So except if TVPaint was used here, I will have to move that topic to "Links". =)

[Paul Fierlinger]

Not that it's all that great, but at least it's different. OK Go-same sentiments.

http://youtu.be/IkYfB1C0Zgc

(couldn't figure out how to embed something here, so it's just the link)

Different for the sake of being different is no different from the banal as meaningless is from useless.

[User767]

thanks for the clarification on how to embed.

Move it on over to "links", I don't think TVP was used.

Different, clever and good, I appreciate. Doing something different because it's not the same as what everyone else does, is OK by me. While I couldn't stomach watching the hours of tripe that the Canadian Film Board has supported, at least they were supporting trying something 'new'. Though most of it Oskar Fischenger and friends had already done years before Canada started doing their thing. I do see value in 'experimental' film, and trying new things. Even if it 'doesn't work', it's the basis for something to use where it will 'work' later on. There are some things I've been happy to see from that stuff. And, sometimes it does work. Never really know until you try (well, some people know before they try, but most don't).

The toast video seemed to do a good enough job at telling the story that went with the music. It was a reasonable means to their end. For what it is, it worked well enough. I don't know where you would functionally get away with this sort of thing. Advertising or music video, maybe a short segment in a movie.

I thought the animation was added digitally to the toast background, but I've been assured that the images were actually burned onto the toast. If that's true, I'm impressed with the line quality, technically, and the amount of effort put into it. If not 100% toast animation, then I'm unimpressed, and it does seem pointless. If there are a bunch of copy cat animations generated because of this, I'm sure I'll regret my comments. That is the worst part of this sort of thing-regurgitation.

[Peter Wassink]

I thought the animation was added digitally to the toast background, but I've been assured that the images were actually burned onto the toast. If that's true, I'm impressed with the line quality, technically, and the amount of effort put into it. If not 100% toast animation, then I'm unimpressed, and it does seem pointless. ....

Interesting issue.
Should ones knowledge about how a movie was made have influence on ones appreciation for it?
I think in animation this factor always plays a role, ( just think how in almost every animation review the number of drawings is mentioned )
If you can't tell he composited it, should it matter?
If its true that he did actually use real toastdrawings i would appreciate this film less precisely because you can't tell...
I don't find the film clever at all, why is it on toast? He did not take advantage off his technique, did nothing special with it. And to make it worse it ended up looking very much composited.
Its not nice to learn that someone did something very time-consuming resulting in something that just looks like they did something very quickly, unless that was your point. (This "point" is often made modern art)

i do like the animation itself, just not the toast part.

[Paul Fierlinger]

Interesting issue.
Should ones knowledge about how a movie was made have influence on ones appreciation for it?

This is an issue I have been grappling with most of my life; it pertains to many of the arts but particularly painting and drawing. Do Renaissance painters who have been in recent years exposed to having used the magic box bum me out? They sure do and very much so. Writers who lie about using ghost writers are right down there too.

But I have also far more valued artists after I discovered more about their lives, and have appreciated far more paintings given to me (or even sold to me) by painters I knew personally, or even perhaps met just once. I think this is because art is more dependent and directly connected with the truth than any other profession. Kitsch is not art because it is detached from any semblance of the truth.

I once had a dog who painted "modern art" with his paws and I kept for a while one of these paintings on my wall, until a very good painter once visited me and asked me if he could have the painting (he didn't know about my dog) I gave it to him, saying it is of no importance to me because I know the artist and don't think much of him. The painter said I should never judge art that way and I offered to tell him a few things about the artist. He refused to hear it which got us into an argument whether it is important or not.

Some time later I met him on the street and he told me that many of his visitors have been admiring the painting and now he wants to know who it is. When I pointed to my dog, he became very disturbed and finally conceded that I am right, that it does matter to know. Later he painted his own work over the canvas.

[User767]

For me, there's an appreciation of art, and one of craft. Art should be able to stand on its own, without explanation. And then, with explanation, hopefully be enhanced. If art is well executed (craft), then I have an even greater appreciation of it. I also appreciate craft on its own. Something well engineered or executed, I appreciate.

For the toast thing, I appreciate the skill and time and effort put into it if it's non-composited. The craft. I know what it would take to do that, and it has a 'wow' factor. On its own, it's nothing great. It's a simple thing that more or less works for what its doing. If it's composited, there's still a fair amount of work in it, but the craft part of it isn't the same. It's just another composited animation job, without the insanity element (of burning registered images into thousands of pieces of toast).

Artistically, it's simple, and it mostly supports the song. The toast doesn't really seem to enhance it though. I would have done it a different way. I would have enjoyed it more if it had been more elegant. Without the toast, I don't know that it's all that remarkable. Maybe it would be. I don't know, since it is the way it is.

I've seen some pen-stippled drawings that took an amazing amount of work that were executed well, but were lacking in subject or composition. Sort of good craft, but poor art. Naturally, the definition of art and craft come into play. They do overlap, but I think they are related and still somewhat separate. Perhaps my choice of words is lacking? Hopefully, the concept is getting through.

The dog painting, if it was visually appealing, I think I would still keep and enjoy, regardless of whether it was by a dog or by, say, Jackson Pollack. Probably enjoy it more than a Pollack, really. My daughter is nine. Some of her art is displayed because it's by my daughter. Some of it is displayed because I like the way it looks, and because it's well executed (and would be considered so regardless of who might have done it, or their age). So there's some of my thinking. Maybe I'll think more about it and change my mind. Maybe not....

[Paul Fierlinger]

Maybe I'll think more about it and change my mind. Maybe not....

I've been doing that all my career and I feel I'm getting close to the answer .. so have you:

It's just another composited animation job, without the insanity element

We are social beings and people like to see others succeed through hard work and exceptional skills because it is reassuring that there is still strength and endurance in society.

[slowtiger]

Found another example today of what I call "superfluous animation": - this time they paint artificial finger nails ...



It's exactly the kind of animation you'll find in advertising and, sadly, in some student's films: a short attention grabber, remarkable only for the overcomplicated workflow, but neither for idea nor animation. These schticks come in waves: first there's somebody with too much free time who invents yet another mad technique (or rather, combine odd elements in a Rube-Goldberg-way of production), his film comes around a bit, then some clever advertiser uses the very same trick for their next spot, only to be accused of "stealing the idea" by certain parts of the animation ort ar community (usually non-productive parts).

I confess I was impressed by this kind of work in former years. Nice eye candy for sure. But over time I came to prefer better stories expressed with simpler means.

[Fabrice]

nb : I edited your post to embed the video.

[Peter Wassink]

Found another example today of what I call "superfluous animation": - this time they paint artificial finger nails ...

...

I confess I was impressed by this kind of work in former years. Nice eye candy for sure. But over time I came to prefer better stories expressed with simpler means.

this one is obviously fake though.
Not that the nails weren't photographed in stop motion but its pretty obvious that those nails weren't painted by hand.

[slowtiger]

its pretty obvious that those nails weren't painted by hand

That doesn't even matter - wether they print it, or paint it, or let it grow by trained bacteria - it's still technically animation because they work frame-by-frame.

[User767]

We are social beings and people like to see others succeed through hard work and exceptional skills because it is reassuring that there is still strength and endurance in society.

I guess some of us fall into that category. Many don't. I'm still amazed at how many people take credit for 'work' they don't really do. Most of my work is in advertising. I've done some commercials that other people take credit for animating. Like account managers at the agency, or lawyers, or directors. I'm sure Paul's 'producers' on Tulip take credit for 'their' movie. There's a powerful segment of society that doesn't want to see others succeed through work or skill, but through conniving and connections.

Sort of like "How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying". Only nastier, and often without the sort of Karmic comeuppance they often put into 60's movies and books. I work, so I appreciate it when someone else does too. I want them to be rewarded for it as well. I guess that's just a natural part of being a part of "The Proletariat".

Stuff like the toast animation is interesting to me. I don't know what value it would have if it didn't have advertising or music as an 'excuse'. It doesn't need a story, its only purpose is to get your attention, briefly. Otherwise, the audience is a bunch of beret-wearing aficionados who could watch Norman McLaren's work every day (and enjoy it).

The more I think about this, the more I feel like I'm appreciating a book written on a grain of rice. Now I'm a little disgusted with the whole thing-(or with myself?). The older I get, the more foolish I feel. Perhaps that's wisdom?

[Fabrice]

Many don't. I'm still amazed at how many people take credit for 'work' they don't really do.

I agree with you. It's also true in the software industry. Now I try to detect and avoid to work with such people.

[Paul Fierlinger]

When packs of social animals become dysfunctional, the weaker individuals are pushed out by the stronger ones but often the weaker ones survive well on their own and become the proverbial "lone wolves". I'm already headed towards the free ranging Internet to see if I can survive as a lone animator.