Hello! my unusually long introduction and questions

[jrichards]

Anyway, vidéos DO have titles… searching among them is not so long is it ?

Unfortunately chatbraque, when you don't know the words for what you need; you can spend a very, very, long time searching for information. For example: music. There's a song that you really enjoy but you don't know the song's title or the artist; All you know is that there are unique instruments and you remember the melody perfectly. The chance that you will find the artist or title are not good if it's not popular. Even with all the searchable music and video sites, you can't search for a song or artist that you have no words for.

It's the same thing with new software. In my previous example, I couldn't find how to set the layout windows back to default because I thought I would see the word "default" or "workspace". It was called "reset" which I never thought of. As people, we tend to remember "what goes wrong" with tools when we try to use them for certain creative purposes. Video tutorials tend to show how to navigate correctly but are less helpful when they miss bugs or potential problems. Especially when users don't know how to describe the bug or problem.

I do like asking questions using video though! Considering many people here speak other languages, is it hard to understand when I'm speaking english in a video question? Would a typed question with a video be easier to answer?

[crayon10]

I do like asking questions using video though! Considering many people here speak other languages, is it hard to understand when I'm speaking english in a video question? Would a typed question with a video be easier to answer?

I have only been here for a few weeks but I think it is safe to say the people here are open to almost anything.

[chatbraque]

Unfortunately chatbraque, when you don't know the words for what you need; you can spend a very, very, long time searching for information.

Yes !… in the case of a beginner, what you say is right…
but I was speaking about "intermediates"… I mean people that have already most part of the bases… they're supposed to know what they're looking for.
(and "I" am looking for … "video tutorials" )

For example: music. There's a song that you really enjoy but you don't know the song's title or the artist; All you know is that there are unique instruments and you remember the melody perfectly. The chance that you will find the artist or title are not good if it's not popular. Even with all the searchable music and video sites, you can't search for a song or artist that you have no words for.

I used to whistle it to my record dealer… believe me or not, he was jolly well smarter than my wifi-box…

It's the same thing with new software. In my previous example, I couldn't find how to set the layout windows back to default because I thought I would see the word "default" or "workspace". It was called "reset" which I never thought of. As people, we tend to remember "what goes wrong" with tools when we try to use them for certain creative purposes. Video tutorials tend to show how to navigate correctly but are less helpful when they miss bugs or potential problems. Especially when users don't know how to describe the bug or problem.

It's the reason why I do shout loud and clear : "the forum is a GREAT PLACE !"

I do like asking questions using video though! Considering many people here speak other languages, is it hard to understand when I'm speaking english in a video question? Would a typed question with a video be easier to answer?

On Vimeo, you can watch and ask… I guess we'll be able to do the same here ?!

[Elodie]

I do like asking questions using video though! Considering many people here speak other languages, is it hard to understand when I'm speaking english in a video question? Would a typed question with a video be easier to answer?

On Vimeo, you can watch and ask… I guess we'll be able to do the same here ?!

Chatbraque, I already support 30 different forums + the emails + the person who call here. Do you really think I have also the time to follow debates on vimeo ? The answer is no, I haven't.

So yes, we know we should have more video tutorials, we read / hear this critic about twice a day, but we are sorry : video tutorials take hours to make and, unfortunately, we are few people in TVPaint Dev. (that's also why all our current video tutorials were made by our beta tester Mark Chong) and we already work overtime.

[chatbraque]

Chatbraque, I already support 30 different forums + the emails + the person who call here. Do you really think I have also the time to follow debates on vimeo ? The answer is no, I haven't.

It's not a matter of what I'm thinking or not about your planning… I have got enough to do with mine
… and I'm not talking about following debats on vimeo either (but here !)
(and I'm not complaining … just asking… propose… etc… je propose, tu disposes)

So yes, we know we should have more video tutorials, we read / hear this critic about twice a day, but we are sorry : video tutorials take hours to make and, unfortunately, we are few people in TVPaint Dev. (that's also why all our current video tutorials were made by our beta tester Mark Chong) and we already work overtime.

Well, I have not read "critics" about this for long
( and from me "critics" are always to be taken as an attempt to help… it has to be taken "easy"… please !)

(anyway I'm looking for "Ishow'U" or a stuff like that, as soon as my planning will allow me… maybe i'll be helpfull too… one day or an other )

[slowtiger]

I don't like video tutorials that much (I also don't like podcasts), they're always too slow for my taste, and the tiny bit of information I really need is hidden somewhere at the end. I also did video tutorials (for software) myself, so I absolutely know how tedious it is to produce them. I'm with Elodie here: too much trouble.

My way of learning works best with a lot of exploration within the software and a good manual. The TVP manual falls a bit short on that part, but we all know that.

One of the best manuals I ever used was the manual for Freehand 4.0, not a very simple program, but cleverly designed and not bloated with unnecessary stuff (like Illustrator - just my taste). This manual concentrated on workflow - it didn't even had that "Reference" part which bloats up other manuals! The workflow was chopped up in little logical pieces like "How to work with several pages", "How to transform objects" and so on. Each of these chapters was only 1 or 2 pages long, with more illustration than text. I still keep my copy!

I think the main weakness of the current TVP manual is the organisation of parts. It's (nearly) all in there - but in unexpected places, and often named differently than I would do. But an overhaul of the manual would occupy a skilled author (who also must be an animator and user) at least 6 months, just for the writing, and another 6 months for a new layout. (I could do that ... just ask my rates ...)

[chatbraque]

I don't like video tutorials that much (I also don't like podcasts), they're always too slow for my taste, and the tiny bit of information I really need is hidden somewhere at the end.

I'm not surprised at all… because I see you as a very, very, very advanced guy in TVP
… and again, I'm talking about "intermediates" (like I am)

… when I compare what I learned in several weeks with a few video tutorials concerning C4D… and what I am able to do in TVP after one year !
Woooooosh !…

I think the main weakness of the current TVP manual is the organisation of parts. It's (nearly) all in there - but in unexpected places, and often named differently than I would do.

To me, it's more the lake of video demonstration included in the on-line help… the maxxon's help is great for that… (or even adobbe's help)
… when things are difficult to explain with words, they include a tiny video… and guess what !… you get it at once !)


Well… the idea was'nt to bother you with nonsenses anyway…
time is precious…

Amitiés

BM



Plus, and Again, I want to thank you A LOT Elodie for all the help you brought to me… ( I know that you're a very kind person)
but… how can you imagine doing that with everybody for a long time ? especially when you are answering the very same questions ?…
(responding to the very same person… one month later ?)

[crayon10]

(that's also why all our current video tutorials were made by our beta tester Mark Chong) and we already work overtime.

I have never said this, but he does and excellent job.

[MichaelT]

I'm usually also not a big fan of video tutorials, but changed my mind somewhat recently after watching the lynda.com tutorial video on color management. To me this is an example of a really useful learning video (together with the book).

No affiliations to Lynda, just an observation and an example of a good video example (in my opinion).

Michael (still saving money for my TVPpro license, getting close;-))

[NickA]

I find video tutorials easier sometimes at first, but they're terrible when you want to find a piece of infomation you vaguely remember (it's possible to end up watching 20 minutes in fast forward searching for one comment) or find a small piece of information quickly. I find it much quicker to use the 'find' feature in a manual (or in a forum if it isn't in the manual).

I don't learn how to do anything I don't need to in software anymore. I use manuals as brocures for things I can do in the future if the need arises (usually it doesn't) or I get stuck exploring. I used to be the other way with software (learn all the features), but it's such a waste of creative time. I need to spend more time on drawing than software. For these purposes text also suffices, but videos can be fun as entertainment, or to see how someone else works.

[ingie01]

Thanks to all for this topic. I have always learned by watching. The best is to watch an artist. Next best a movie (video) of an artist. TVpaint enables artists through its' programming genius but has not provided for my right brain learning mode.
So, yes I would love more video tutorials. Please,with sugar on top?