Is it possible to rename a scene?

[Mads Juul]

Is it possible to rename a scene?
-mads

[Animark]

Hi Mads,

do you mean the name of a clip? Just double click on the name and enter a new name. If you really mean scene, I searched for the name of a scene, but didn't find any. They are just numbered.

[Paul Fierlinger]

Mads, do you mean how to change the name of the Project? Otherwise I agree with what Animark says; in the case of renaming a scene you think of it as a clip.

[Mads Juul]

do you mean the name of a clip? J

No I mean a Scene it's a collection of clips you can create in the project Timeline.
I have A hard Time getting my Head Aiound What to Use them for.

in the case of renaming a scene you think of it as a clip.

And you say I should just think of it as a Clip.
Is anyone using the Scene concept? or Is it just a little confusing. I find it Confusing.
If some one is using Scenes How do you do it and Why?
-mads

[Paul Fierlinger]

If some one is using Scenes How do you do it and Why?

Yes, it's just a file management and numbering choice; nothing else. I have my current 80 to 100 minute film divided into 15 parts because a 1 1/2 hour film would become unwieldy within a single Vegas project. I treat my single large film as 15 short films. Each of those is made of any number of scenes, a scene being an event; something more than just a clip.

Man boarding his ship is a scene divided into several clips such as WS of man approaching ship, MS of man getting closer form POV of ship, CU of man's foot stepping on banana peel, MWS of man flying through air.

After that follows the scene of the man landing on deck of ship scene made of several clips and so it goes. This enables me to keep my file management system down to just a series of short numbers and 2 or 3 letters which are easier to follow through the maze of paths from Project to NLE and the same goes for Sandra's folders. She keeps these short names the way I make them but adds a letter S to the start of each of her clips to indicate that they are now in color.

This system of clips clustered within scenes also makes it easier for me to shuffle the order of scenes around in the project tabs. It also makes it easier for the two of us to communicate if we discuss clips within scenes, rather than just clips within a film.

[Sewie]

...
If some one is using Scenes How do you do it and Why?
-mads

I use the 'Project' tab as a sort library for clips. Last week I did a bunch of storyboard for the same project and I found it handy to store them in there.

[Mads Juul]

If some one is using Scenes How do you do it and Why?

Yes, it's just a file management and numbering choice; nothing else. I have my current 80 to 100 minute film divided into 15 parts because a 1 1/2 hour film would become unwieldy within a single Vegas project. I treat my single large film as 15 short films. Each of those is made of any number of scenes, a scene being an event; something more than just a clip.

Man boarding his ship is a scene divided into several clips such as WS of man approaching ship, MS of man getting closer form POV of ship, CU of man's foot stepping on banana peel, MWS of man flying through air.

After that follows the scene of the man landing on deck of ship scene made of several clips and so it goes. This enables me to keep my file management system down to just a series of short numbers and 2 or 3 letters which are easier to follow through the maze of paths from Project to NLE and the same goes for Sandra's folders. She keeps these short names the way I make them but adds a letter S to the start of each of her clips to indicate that they are now in color.

This system of clips clustered within scenes also makes it easier for me to shuffle the order of scenes around in the project tabs. It also makes it easier for the two of us to communicate if we discuss clips within scenes, rather than just clips within a film.

Thank you for taking the time to tell about your workflow.
So you have 4 parts when You make a film if I understand correctly
1)Film
2)Sequence(or part or Short film or what do you call it Paul?)
3)Scene
4)Clip

For the Features I have done I have only had 3 Parts.
1)Film (The Entire Project) - 122513 frames In the last Feature.
2)Sequence ( A collection of related Clips) - 32 sequences In the last Feature.
3)Clip (A single cinematic take) I had 1731 Clips

that makes
3828 frames pr. sequence.
54 clips pr sequence ( 94 clips as most)
71 frames pr. Clip

In the Future I would Like to Make 1 TVPaint project Pr. Sequence.
And Maybe The Sub division in Scenes would come In handy there.

Do you have that Paul? A Single TVPaint Project?
how many Frames/Clips/scenes do you have in you TVPaint Project have you found a limit?
-mads

[Mads Juul]

I use the 'Project' tab as a sort library for clips. Last week I did a bunch of storyboard for the same project and I found it handy to store them in there.

When Storyboarding Do You make a Clip for each New Drawing?
Or do You Keep the Drawings in the same Cinematic Take in the same Clip?
And do you use the the Scene Subdivision When Storyboarding?
-Mads

[Paul Fierlinger]

Do you have that Paul? A Single TVPaint Project?
how many Frames/Clips/scenes do you have in you TVPaint Project have you found a limit?
-mads

A single TVP Project for an entire feature length film would be impossible, even if my computer could handle the load (which I don't think any computer could)? This is what I have NLE VegasPro10 for -- to assemble the clips. BTW, once I export each TVP clip individually as an AVI I don't think in terms of scenes and clips anymore, but just clips -- BUT this information is written into the name of each clip because it starts with the number of the chapter (more further down) followed by the number of the project and scene, and the last number is the clips number within the scene. This way, even a year or two down the road I can always easily locate from Vegas a chapter/Project/scene/clip to make changes. These names are actually quite short, for instance: 05-OL1-10 contains all the info I described above.

I really call my "short films" within the ""big film" Chapters within a VideoBook, because my project is an animated graphic novel designed to be released in weekly installments of single chapters, read in e-readers or laptop devices or just on any computer. I can't even say how long this VideoBook is in terms of minutes or frames or even scenes, because there are many inserted text cards within Vegas that carry text only. I can't tell how long anyone will spend reading these. I am making the equivalent of a feature length film targeted for an audience of ONE; the reader.

But I think you want to hear from me how large my typical projects are; it's usually about a dozen clips (give or take +/- 5 or 6) which are clustered in about 4 or 5 scenes -- sometimes just 2 or 3. Anything above that size slows the playback down. I also just feel uneasy when my projects become too large in case of a total loss by some horrendous event (even though I make backups by the minute and store external backup drives in my bank safety deposit box).

[Sewie]

When Storyboarding Do You make a Clip for each New Drawing?
Or do You Keep the Drawings in the same Cinematic Take in the same Clip?
And do you use the the Scene Subdivision When Storyboarding?
-Mads

I suppose what you call 'clips' I call 'shots'. I don't make a new clip for every new drawing (goodness!). In the tab "Clip:Time Line" I do all the drawings with all the layers I need and the timing I need. For this job last week I had to do a bunch (about ten) of moving-storyboards; short shots containing some action and rudimentary timing, etc (just a quick visualisation of what the the animation will look like for the art director and the agency). So for every moving-storyboard I created a 'scene' in the 'Project' tab. It was just handy for me to have all the storyboards for the same job in the same TVP file.

I 've never used the timeline in de 'Project' tab. (By that I mean that when you press 'play' while you are in the projects tab, TVP will play all you scenes.)
I haven't had any use for it yet.

[Sewie]

BTW. To get back to the header of this thread;
If you double click on the name of the 'scene' in the 'Project' tab (where it says "Untitled") a rename window will pop up in the middle of your screen.
Or was that not your question?

[Mads Juul]

I suppose what you call 'clips' I call 'shots'..

I (and a lot of people in the film industri??) call it a 'shot' as well
"a shot is a continuous strip of motion picture film, created of a series of frames, that runs for an uninterrupted period of time."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_%28filmmaking%29

But TVPaint call it 'clip' So I use this word here at the TVPaint Forum.
The reason why I ask if you make a clip for each drawing, is that when you export your storyboard (File<Render Storyboard) you can only have 1 Image pr. Clip so you have to make more clips pr. Shot if you want to export.
I think this is wrong And I guess you feel the same.

I don't make a new clip for every new drawing (goodness!).

I think I will make a feature request about being able to have more than 1 image pr. Clip when you export Storyboards.

For this job last week I had to do a bunch (about ten) of moving-storyboards; short shots containing some action and rudimentary timing, etc (just a quick visualisation of what the the animation will look like for the art director and the agency). .

Ok just to be clear Sewie when you talk about shot you talk about
"a shot is a continuous strip of motion picture film, created of a series of frames, that runs for an uninterrupted period of time."
??

In TVPaint a 'Scene' is Simpl a a collection of 'clips' Y0u control it in the Project tab. or for instance in Clip<New Scene Is that what you talk About?

So for every moving-storyboard I created a 'scene' in the 'Project' tab.

Or do you Use The Scene Concept in TVpaint??

I 've never used the timeline in de 'Project' tab.

Me neither. But i'm Doing 'Moving Storyboards' or 'Animatics' or Storyboards As well professional. And I fell the Project Timeline Should be where I was Working. So thats why i'm Asking.
Other storyboard/Animatic People about there workflow. So we can give feedback so the Project Timeline could be Improved for Shat I think it's there for making moving "storyboards/animatics/storyreels".

-Mads

[Mads Juul]

If you double click on the name of the 'scene' in the 'Project' tab (where it says "Untitled") a rename window will pop up in the middle of your screen.
Or was that not your question?

That is not the name of a 'Scene' in TVPaint.
look at this screen shot.

When I use the word 'scene'. Here in this forum I refer to the definition used by TVPaint.
I have i hard time getting my head around how to use it. That why I started asking how to rename a scene
I guess the way Paul uses it is the way it should be used.

Yes, it's just a file management and numbering choice; nothing else.

Another Interesting discussion is the definition of words. Because the definition is change from person to person. from Film Studio to film Studio. From Sofware to software. It could be good to make clear definitions of word so it's easioer to discuss the functionality of tvpaint.
Project: Collection of Scenes and Clips:
Scene: Collections of Clips( just a file management and numbering choice; nothing else. )
Clip: "a shot is a continuous strip of motion picture film, created of a series of frames, that runs for an uninterrupted period of time."

_mads

[Paul Fierlinger]

That's it . And now I understand your quibble with "where do you change the scene name" too. The solution would have to be a complex one, in which once you call the first clip a scene and attach another clip to it, it would have to auto-acquire the scene name and we would have to just add the clip's name to it. But suppose you throw in a lst minute decision to combine two scenes or split one scene into two, the automatization would become indeed complex. Isn't simpler to just rename scenes the same way you rename clips?

[Sewie]

I (and a lot of people in the film industri??) call it a 'shot' as well
"a shot is a continuous strip of motion picture film, created of a series of frames, that runs for an uninterrupted period of time."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_%28filmmaking%29

But TVPaint call it 'clip' So I use this word here at the TVPaint Forum.

Shouldn't TVPaint (and us at this forum) call it a 'shot' as well? To untangle this confusion in the future? We all make movies, one way or another, so why not stick to the jargon?

Ok just to be clear Sewie when you talk about shot you talk about
"a shot is a continuous strip of motion picture film, created of a series of frames, that runs for an uninterrupted period of time."
??

Correct. Sorry about the confusion.

I think I will make a feature request about being able to have more than 1 image pr. Clip when you export Storyboards.

That would be a good idea. When I make storyboards for print they usually contain far fewer drawings than when I do moving storyboards. So being able to select the right frames or drawings from the clip (hopefully soon to be called 'shots') would be a good feature as well. It would also be great if we could have more flexibility in creating a custom layout for the printed storyboards.

In TVPaint a 'Scene' is Simpl a a collection of 'clips' Y0u control it in the Project tab. or for instance in Clip<New Scene Is that what you talk About?

Yes, like this:

Another Interesting discussion is the definition of words. Because the definition is change from person to person. from Film Studio to film Studio. From Sofware to software. It could be good to make clear definitions of word so it's easioer to discuss the functionality of tvpaint.

Why not use the terminology that's used in the film industry for as far as we can. It gets confusing with words like clips/shots....
In theatre a scene is traditionally played within a unity of space and time, I believe. The same for movies. And a scene can contain any number of shots.

So if we would have a number of 'shots' (or clips as they are called at the moment in TVP) and if we would be able to group them somehow, we would have a 'scene'...
Maybe we can have a number of 'scenes' (= a sequence) within one Project... TVP would have to be able to use more RAM, I suppose, but with a 64bit version in development perhaps it could be a possibility in the future?