)Hello TVPaint team!
I was speaking with Ten_Zero in another topic from TVpaint about some feature requests ( viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4362" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ), so i will post it also here !
I know you guys are not so found of vector, but there are some features that i can't imagine with bitmap, and that would be very nice to implement!
These are vectorial properties that you can find back in Manga Studio and Stylos. (If you don't know these softwares very well, please just tell. And i will create illustrations to make the features easy to understand):
- joining 2 lines (end-point from line1 with start point from line 2 and vice/versa)
-bending already created lines (1 fixed point, 2 fix points, free start and points, move entire line)
- erasing intersections
-thickening specific part of lines linked to penn-pressure
or like in Toon Boom by dragging brush-contours (but in a more flexible way, because it's not user-friendly if you have a lot of ancher points)
There is already a 3 point-spline vector tool integrated in tvpaint. (very handy! i use it a lot. Especially nice when linked to line fade in/out)
Maybe this tool can be developed for getting those features?
Kind regards,
Bart
additional vector tools
Re: additional vector tools
ok, I see what you mean. Someone in a japanese studio showed me.- joining 2 lines (end-point from line1 with start point from line 2 and vice/versa)
but I think it could be done only with the lastest ending point.
I don't get it here. Please can you explain more ? or add a screenshot ?-bending already created lines (1 fixed point, 2 fix points, free start and points, move entire line)
hmmm, not sure to understand, what is the purpose ?- erasing intersections
ok, it's interesting. we can do it with the FX (alpha control), but not with the pen.thickening specific part of lines, linked to penn-pressure
Fabrice Debarge
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donbartolo
- Posts: 88
- Joined: 31 Jul 2006, 11:33
Re: additional vector tools
Hello Fabrice!
Thank for the fast feedback.
I will illustrate those exemples with a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZQNOrur-u8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1.) joining 2 lines: please wacth at 1:10 sec.
=> the tool connects the first/last ancherpoint from a vector line with the first/last ancherpoint of another vector line.
with other words: it connects an extreme point (beginning of ending point) of a vector line with another extreme point of another vector line
There are nice properties connected to it:
- choose width of the created piece of connection line (for making it the same size or thicker or thinner)
- "smoothing" to create a smooth transition between the two connected lines
- "autosnap" (when you are short to a start/endpoint of a line, the line you will create will snap to this start/end point): please watch at 0:58 sec.
2.) bending already created lines (1 fixed point, 2 fix points, free start and end points, move entire line)
This is called the reshape function
=> Please watch at 1:35 sec (in this exemple : 2 fix points: you can move everything between the start- and endpoint except the start- and endpoint)
=> with one fix point, you can bend one extremity of a vector line
=> with free start and end point (you can move everything between the start- and endpoint included the start- and endpoint)
=> move entire line: you move an entire zone at once
What makes this function incredibely cool in compareason to the same function in Toon Boom, is that you can choose the witdh range of the bending zone (short piece of line <=> long piece of line or even different lines in that same area).
It doesn't matter how much ancher points you have within your line, in Stylos the area that will be bent will remain smoothly bent. (in Toon Boom: how more ancher points you have, how crappier the bending)
Thank for the fast feedback.
I will illustrate those exemples with a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZQNOrur-u8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1.) joining 2 lines: please wacth at 1:10 sec.
=> the tool connects the first/last ancherpoint from a vector line with the first/last ancherpoint of another vector line.
with other words: it connects an extreme point (beginning of ending point) of a vector line with another extreme point of another vector line
- choose width of the created piece of connection line (for making it the same size or thicker or thinner)
- joine2_width.jpg (94.01 KiB) Viewed 22495 times
- joined_smoothed.jpg (87.41 KiB) Viewed 22495 times
2.) bending already created lines (1 fixed point, 2 fix points, free start and end points, move entire line)
This is called the reshape function
=> Please watch at 1:35 sec (in this exemple : 2 fix points: you can move everything between the start- and endpoint except the start- and endpoint)
=> with one fix point, you can bend one extremity of a vector line
=> with free start and end point (you can move everything between the start- and endpoint included the start- and endpoint)
=> move entire line: you move an entire zone at once
What makes this function incredibely cool in compareason to the same function in Toon Boom, is that you can choose the witdh range of the bending zone (short piece of line <=> long piece of line or even different lines in that same area).
It doesn't matter how much ancher points you have within your line, in Stylos the area that will be bent will remain smoothly bent. (in Toon Boom: how more ancher points you have, how crappier the bending)
Last edited by donbartolo on 04 Oct 2010, 22:52, edited 4 times in total.
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donbartolo
- Posts: 88
- Joined: 31 Jul 2006, 11:33
Re: additional vector tools
3.) delete until intersections erases the intersected piece of line created by 2 or more crossing lines.
Remark: like displayed on the image, there is also : delete all and the classic delete touch selection
4.) Change width tool for thickening/thinning line
Please watch at 1:43 sec
=> Similar to the thickening tool, there is also the global zigzag compensation tool that smooths a selected part of line. Please watch at: 1:57 sec
Here is a link to the demo of Stylos:
http://www.celsys.co.jp/en/download/ret ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If you need any help, please just ask!
Remark: like displayed on the image, there is also : delete all and the classic delete touch selection
- intersection.jpg (78.43 KiB) Viewed 24562 times
Please watch at 1:43 sec
=> Similar to the thickening tool, there is also the global zigzag compensation tool that smooths a selected part of line. Please watch at: 1:57 sec
Here is a link to the demo of Stylos:
http://www.celsys.co.jp/en/download/ret ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If you need any help, please just ask!
Re: additional vector tools
I've already seen this with japanese softwares and I understand : these possibilities could be really useful, in particular for TV series.
Re: additional vector tools
I really don't know if I want this ... I can see the benefits within a studio environment where speed is all that counts. But it also restricts the output style-wise. It's one of my main objections against bigger studios: their output looks all the same in terms of line quality and style.
IMO, vector lines get interesting when there's a) enough control points to shape the line, to make it look like a brush stroke, and b) it needs to work with brushes in a highly controllable way. It's not enough to have a vector line like every other program, it needs to add something.
I've seen some good vector solutions, my favourite ones were the old Animo approach, and of course Anime Studio now. Both had their drawbacks, but in essence they offered what I was searching for. Paradoxically only a few animators make use of those advanced features. I've never ever seen animation done in Animo's vector module, was there any?
IMO, vector lines get interesting when there's a) enough control points to shape the line, to make it look like a brush stroke, and b) it needs to work with brushes in a highly controllable way. It's not enough to have a vector line like every other program, it needs to add something.
I've seen some good vector solutions, my favourite ones were the old Animo approach, and of course Anime Studio now. Both had their drawbacks, but in essence they offered what I was searching for. Paradoxically only a few animators make use of those advanced features. I've never ever seen animation done in Animo's vector module, was there any?
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Re: additional vector tools
In Japan, Production I.G (include OSHII Mamoru and KON Satoshi works) use "Animo".slowtiger wrote:I've never ever seen animation done in Animo's vector module, was there any?
http://www.production-ig.co.jp/contents ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hirose（Production I.G. staff）；
I compare that scanned with both actually "Retas" and "Animo" for promote whitch is better use necessity "animo" everyone.
(omit)
"Retas" scanned data becomes the data of the dot by dot（only 1bit digital data） . However, "Animo" scanned data is keep gray scale, softly with intonation expressible.
広瀬 ：
実際に「Retas」と「animo」両方のソフトで線をスキャンしたものを見比べて、
誰にでも「animo」を使う必要性を話せるようにしてもらいました。
（略）
Retasだとドット（白黒１ビット）のデータになるんですが、Animoだとグレースケールの
柔らかい抑揚のある線が表現できるんです。
Spoiler : Keep close if you takes no interest in Japanese Animation :
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donbartolo
- Posts: 88
- Joined: 31 Jul 2006, 11:33
Re: additional vector tools
Like i mentionned in another topic, if you guys are purely speaking about images that are scanned and vectorised, you can also check out Toon Boom Animate Pro (i don't think Animate -normal edition has this scanning/vectorising feature.)
Disney used Retas Harmony (with the same scanning module as Animate pro) for making the Princess and the Frog.
paper > scanning TB> coloring TB
Slowtiger> I think that all kind of animations using a specific type of technology look the same in some kind of way when someone dislike the technology.
Personally, i like a lot of big company movies using vector line tools, and they don't look especially the same to me...
The tools that i propose are not aimed to create a type of vector line, but these are tools to ease the workflow after the creation of a vector line. It's up to each company to create a type of vector line that will be different from the other competitors.
Some exemples:
- Retas and Manga Studio are both from the same company and use both those features i mentionned above. But i prefere 10 times Manga Studio above Retas for the line output.
- The type of vector line produced by Retas and Toon Boom are also very different
By the way, i also like Anime Studio a lot. But its vector approache is really different from what i propose. I think there is another feature request topic going on about technologies using bone-structures.
Disney used Retas Harmony (with the same scanning module as Animate pro) for making the Princess and the Frog.
paper > scanning TB> coloring TB
Slowtiger> I think that all kind of animations using a specific type of technology look the same in some kind of way when someone dislike the technology.
Personally, i like a lot of big company movies using vector line tools, and they don't look especially the same to me...
The tools that i propose are not aimed to create a type of vector line, but these are tools to ease the workflow after the creation of a vector line. It's up to each company to create a type of vector line that will be different from the other competitors.
Some exemples:
- Retas and Manga Studio are both from the same company and use both those features i mentionned above. But i prefere 10 times Manga Studio above Retas for the line output.
- The type of vector line produced by Retas and Toon Boom are also very different
By the way, i also like Anime Studio a lot. But its vector approache is really different from what i propose. I think there is another feature request topic going on about technologies using bone-structures.