A new Ghibli film ?

[Sierra Rose]

Hello, Paul..are you there? What about "Grave of Fireflies"?


Yes, it was the Mirage discussion that made me view it.
This was a film that touched my heart and still haunts me. Wonderful film in my opinion.

[Paul Fierlinger]

I think Sierra spoke for me in the most understanding way. I never had Tulip in mind when writing my opinions... jeez, Tulip hasn't even been released to the public yet, how could I feel hurt for lack of fame? But fame has never been one of my needs and I think if that would be the case it would have shown by now in many unpleasant ways. If I needed fame, I would live where the famous live and say the things the famous say to other famous ones. If I really, really wanted to be famous, I'd stay off these pages!!!

I will tell you why I participate in these evaluations. I believe it's important for lurkers and newcomers to discover what kind of people populate these forums, what thoughts we have on our minds as we create our films, how we get along (or don't) and what types of films and styles are made by us with TVPaint that compare with some of the gems we show each other, how far we get in our personal development and views, where our work takes us and also, how we all see other people's films so that we get to understand each other better.

There is another reason I participate: I want others to join in the discussions to better support the spirit and progressive development of TVPaint's capabilities. I think that the software developers can better understand what should be added to our tool sets when they see us (or participate with us) evaluate the way certain films were made.

Most of the time I wait to see who will bite first and if there is no response for too long. I'll start by offering my own thoughts which are usually blunt and provoke responses. Usually the ra-ra posts that squeal "I like it" "I love it" "Cool" lead no where and are real discussion killers, and of course, help no one. If you disagree with what I say, say so, if you think you know what my problems are, write me a PM. If you want me to like what you like and find out that I don't, don't try to make me like it just because you think I am missing out on something -- that's for PM too.

And while I'm at it; please tell us a few things about the film you are presenting; why you think it should be discussed and a few things you know about its origin. Too often people just drop a link and run away, never to be heard from again.

Enough from me.

[Fabrice]

Paul, IMO, your opinion about films is "yours" (as we use to say in france) but also always interesting to read as you are a feature film maker.
I share your point of view about : yes, cool, oh, I like it .... I also prefer to have some argumentation instead. (nb : don't forget that a full argumentation is difficult to do for non native english people from Europe or Asia ...)

Regarding this topic, I just think that some people are just a bit astonished/desappointed because you have even not tried to watch some masterpieces from Japan. (the mentionned Ghibli films for instance, or "la maison en petit cubes".)

I think that the software developers can better understand what should be added to our tool sets when they see us (or participate with us) evaluate the way certain films were made.

That's why we would like to have your opinion about Ghibli !

[Fabrice]

That's why we would like to have your opinion about Ghibli !

I mean : we need it.

[ten_zero]

"Grave of Fireflies",火垂るの墓(Hotaru no haka) ... Oh no.
The film is most realistic one, great job of Takahata team.
However, our generation watched (by FORCE) it every year for "peace education",
from public kindergarden to high school.

[Fabrice]

However, our generation watched (by FORCE) it every year for "peace education",
from public kindergarden to high school.

Really ? That's interesting to know. I was completely unaware of that fact.

Btw, I might be wrong, but it was the second one from Ghibli which was shown in France, one year after Porco Rosso. (15 or 16 years ago)

Some stuff are interesting to study in .火垂るの墓(Hotaru no haka) : the faces/movements of caracters (fear, happiness, joy, sadness, neutrality, ...), the animation of the water, fire, insects, etc ... there was a lot of variety compared to laputa, kiki ...

[Paul Fierlinger]

"Grave of Fireflies",火垂るの墓(Hotaru no haka) ... Oh no.
The film is most realistic one, great job of Takahata team.
However, our generation watched (by FORCE) it every year for "peace education",
from public kindergarden to high school.

Need I say more? I just Googled the film and it is now without sound but I can see what it's all about. And yes, it reminds me of all the Russian films from the '30's we were forced to watch in communist Czechoslovakia, albeit not animated but just as stylistically propagandist with simplistic moralizing. The exaggerated expressions of small children gazing upwards in horror (in case someone couldn't get it that dropping bombs are horrific.) If I were Japanese, I'd be cringing as well that this film can be still considered anywhere in the modern as serious art.

[ten_zero]

Really ? That's interesting to know. I was completely unaware of that fact.

Btw, I might be wrong, but it was the second one from Ghibli which was shown in France, one year after Porco Rosso. (15 or 16 years ago)

You are so lucky that were not watch from a biased viewpoint.

"The rabbit of Glass（ガラスのうさぎ）
http://www.ggvp.net/Usagi/
"1/2 Sweet potato（半分のさつまいも）"
http://www.tinkerbell-web.com/ashita.html

Need I say more?

If you want to say about my nightmare owning to Ghibli, its wrong.
Why "Hotaru" changed my weak movie, because I felt "forced peace education" had expected of some people.
For example, I never felt "something expected" to "Jux interdits ( Forbidden Games)".

[Paul Fierlinger]

As you can now see this is like a small United Nations in here and there are many predictable tiny cultural clashes going on all the time. You made my day of course -- because you understand the tools of propaganda machinations and how so many of those famous Japanese films are propagandistic in their condescending approach to viewers -- This is why my occidental friends here could never understand "what my problem is" -- what a lovely twist of events, since I came on initially saying that I don't understand the Japanese culture. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Germans here would understand as well -- if not from their personal experiences then from the stories of their parents.

[Fabrice]

Paul, admitting that "Tombstone or Fireflies" was used for propaganda purposes in Japan, I seriously doubt it was created in this purpose. I don't remember exactly but I think have read a long time ago that the author has lived during his childhood similar events as those reported in the movie. (Ten_Zero please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not sure of this last point)

Anyway, all japanese animation films are not like this one ! Believing that is a dangerous shortcut. Please try some others.
If you are not interested by "Tombstone or Fireflies" because of the historical background of the story or/and the propaganda use of it, I still would like to have your opinion about "la maison de petit cubes" or "My neighbor Totoro" ... at least for the technical point of view for the future development of TVP.

[Paul Fierlinger]

It's all the same. Look here -- there's some excellent Japanese graphics art on those pages.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... 0%26um%3D1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Fabrice]

Sorry Paul, I don't understand what you mean. What is this link about ?

I was speaking of this kind of animation/backgrounds : http://blog.hyptyo.com/?p=141

[Paul Fierlinger]

It's a sensitivity I subscribe to. I was hoping it would explain why Today's Japanese kitsch is so unappealing to me. Anything after Yoji Kuri disappeared from the scene, animation went downhill in Japan. I absolutely adored that guy -- about 20 years ago. Where did he go?
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/shorts/love- ... -kuri.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Fabrice]

Ok, I understand now

Yes it's really different, on my side I'm more interested in that kind of stuff ( more recent, very different, sorry ) with however a high quality :

"My neighbor totoro" for the first images, "La maison en petit cubes" for the last ones.

[slowtiger]

It's funny, even when I disagree with Paul's thoughts a lot, I can't help but find myself on the same "side" with him.

The examples he linked to are familiar to me. There are several (very expensive) bookshops in Berlin which carry magazines and books from all over the world about design, comics, photography, and art in general. I like to spend whole afternoons there and browse book after book, always in search for a good idea, a new view, a surprising concept. Often I find this in ordinary graphic design jobs, as well as in some underground comic. There's an overwhelming variety in what's possible to do on a sheet of paper, and with which tools.

Compare this with the state of contemporary animation design. Sadly, 95% of feature animation haven't stepped any further from 19th century landscape painting, and Ghibli is one of those. Not that they do bad landscapes, mind you. But I'm a bit fed up with critics who predictably praise every new Ghibli film as the top of the art of animation. It's not. They're all nice, and of course above average, but they're by no means artistic revelations, especially not in the visuals.