A new Ghibli film ?

[Paul Fierlinger]

And I've always enjoyed Tezuka's "Jumping" -

You mean you've sat through this more times than once? I wish you would tell me David, why and what you enjoyed so much that you could watch this many times (doesn't "always" imply many times?)

[Elodie]

Paul, you've never seen several time something you like ? O_o

By the way, this animation is quite impressive (thanks David for finding it ^^) : it's really hard to animate a moving background (I don't teach you anything I think so ^^) and it's not a crime to observe and understand someone's work... It's totally sane and normal to enjoy masterpieces from great artists (or why do you listen a music / read a book / (add your own example) you like, several time ?)

Tezuka's work is totally huge and incredible. And all your bad faith won't change anything

[malcooning]

And I've always enjoyed Tezuka's "Jumping" ]

One of my all time favorites. Truly inspiring in its simplicity and experience. I love showing it to people.

[slowtiger]

I had the pleasure to watch a whole program of Tezuka's films in '91 in Annecy. It was a great experience, if only his films were a bit "cool", more for the mind than for the heart. I'd say he's a very analytical filmmaker, so the pleasure wathing the films is more of an intellectual than emotional one.

[Paul Fierlinger]

Markus, now you're getting close to how that clip makes me feel: COLD. I see no soul and no heart, just a one trick pony, a gimmick which isn't thought out at the end. O.K., he ends it where it started so we know that he never resolved anything himself. The film is as hollow and dry as a rain barrel in Arizona. By the way, he forgot to put in their a dry rain barrel in Arizona.
His imagination has dried up too; a naked lady sunning on the balcony, soldiers fighting senseless wars, factories, gardens yadda yadda, so what? And who was it? And so what that there was no rain barrel -- what do any of the other places say? We're going around the world and so many places and things are happening, isn't that clever? so who was it that hopped around and why and what did she get from the experience? Oh never mind who it was, of course he wants to look deep by inserting a mystery -- that's what these kinds of films do, so he should be able to get away with it too ... and look: HE HAS!

[Fabrice]

he ends it where it started so we know that he never resolved anything himself.

Hmmm, I'm not sure to agree on this point :
I may be wrong but sometimes the path is more important than the destination. You can learn a lot by travelling

[Paul Fierlinger]

But you usually return a changed person in some profound way. What have you learned from this experience that you never knew before? That there are various people and things happening everywhere? That the world is round? The only sentiment I caught on these pages besides the "I always liked this film" is that it takes a lot of work to animate entire sceneries in perspective -- well, is that new? How about being able to say and feel: Wow, at first I couldn't see what all those scribbles were meant to be but gradually I understood that the film is taking me around the world and it was clever the way he simplified perspective and showed how zillions of stories are happening every minute of the day and WOW again; look with what simplicity he showed so much!!! I'm going to have to look at that again.

This is why I can't understand why anyone would feel a need to watch that film again -- not a single surprise in it.

[Elodie]

I'd just say : for me, Miyazaki's movie are like poetry. You cannot all the time clearly explain what you see, because you feel something (and how explain a feeling ?). Maybe, when we cannot explain something, we rather prefer say "it's too intellectual", in order to amdit it's just...a feeling, an idea... a poem so.

And I don't agree with you Paul again : there is a balance between things we know at the beginning of the movie (because human needs some little "basics", or he becomes crazy... a little like when we see horrible experimental and epileptic animations in festivals...) and mysterious things. That's the subtlety of Miyazaki's movies (I won't talk about Tezuka, because his work is 1000times spread than Miyazaki's work, about subjects and ways he used). Why should movies have to be so cartesian ? Why should we have to be "jailed" into a movie with big explanation's walls ? I mean, in occidental movies, there is no liberty, it's just "the story of... who...". With a Miyazaki, there's freedom, because you can make your own explanation, your own end, the director's points of view are not always imposed... and it's not a bad thing, why not after all ?

But I may understand why you don't like this. Maybe for you, when there is too much freedom in a movie, it means the director has neglected some points... But I think it's really not the case. Just, Japaneses get a different way to tell a story than us =)

But you usually return a changed person in some profound way. What have you learned from this experience that you never knew before? That there are various people and things happening everywhere? That the world is round? The only sentiment I caught on these pages besides the "I always liked this film" is that it takes a lot of work to animate entire sceneries in perspective -- well, is that new? How about being able to say and feel: Wow, at first I couldn't see what all those scribbles were meant to be but gradually I understood that the film is taking me around the world and it was clever the way he simplified perspective and showed how zillions of stories are happening every minute of the day and WOW again; look with what simplicity he showed so much!!! I'm going to have to look at that again.

This is why I can't understand why anyone would feel a need to watch that film again -- not a single surprise in it.

But in that case, there is not really a story, it's just... a show about what Tezuka's able to do, Paul ^^" I think you take this story very too seriously =)

[Paul Fierlinger]

Just, Japaneses get a different way to tell a story than us =)

Didn't I say right from the beginning that I have no insights into that culture?

I mean, in occidental movies, there is no liberty, it's just "the story of... who...".

Have you ever watched a Prit Paarn movie?

there's freedom, because you can make your own explanation, your own end, the director's points of view are not always imposed... and it's not a bad thing, why not after all ?

I call that director's laziness or Art for Art's Sake. It's intellectual laziness to leave many things unresolved and asking the viewer to figure it out for herself. It's called arrogance too.

If this way of storytelling would be generally permissible and acceptable than anyone could throw any numbers of elements of life in a hodge-podge way on the screen, stand back and say with great satisfaction, There! I just finished another one of my GREAT masterpieces. Now if all films would be made with this degree of self love, how soon would it take you to get tired of all movies?

Since there are people who lose sleep and are tormented by getting a good story out and in the most exciting way (this takes time and lots and lots of self torture, then there is also room for pretentious people as described above and we are all happy because we can say either, That's not for me, or, That's for me but not for you, I guess. (sniff).

[slowtiger]

I'd like to invite you to watch Tony Hill's Down Side Up from 1984. It's a crappy VHS copy, and in the original 16mm there's a bit more visible in the "black" parts ... but here is it: part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTT0qJ5m2Vc and 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDar6WiNzEM. (16 min)

I've enjoyed this film several times on a big screen (where it belongs), and often with an audience of filmmakers who couldn't help but ask "how did he do that?" I met Tony Hill in Person (and his family), he's a teacher from Hull and did a whole bunch of the "experimental home movies" as someone coined it, all very popular with an average audience. (And of course he told us the secret of how it was done.)

Down Side Up shares nearly the same structure with Jump, but has, IMO, much more to offer. It unfolds slowly, but manages to keep you interested, especially in finding the odd details hidden in the shots. And this film decides an old question: earth is flat.

[Paul Fierlinger]

I am familiar with this film and it was now interesting for me to see how it has aged. Technology has killed it's original wow factor because it is too easy to create that effect today and there are already too many commercials running on TV that have carried the effect to its hilt. This inevitably is the fate of all movies that rely on a technical effect to create surprise. And I agree with you that it is a much more sensitive and more thought out and timed film than Jump, which had to be born already old.

[slowtiger]

If this way of storytelling would be generally permissible and acceptable than anyone could throw any numbers of elements of life in a hodge-podge way on the screen, stand back and say with great satisfaction, There! I just finished another one of my GREAT masterpieces. Now if all films would be made with this degree of self love, how soon would it take you to get tired of all movies?

I have to disagree because I've seen lots and lots of good films which were just art for art's sake. (I maybe have mentioned once or twice that I was raised on experimental film festivals?)

There is a certain breed of (experimental) films which, on one level, look like someone put together whatever he had at hand. There's even films which make it a rule not to choose, but to use whatever comes in. Within this "genre" there's a wide gap between films which do this successfully and create something enjoyable, and those which don't (which are, of course, the majority). I may have seen about 1000 films of this genre, of which at least 900 have been crap.

[Elodie]

Just, Japaneses get a different way to tell a story than us =)

Didn't I say right from the beginning that I have no insights into that culture?

I know, that's why I may understand why you don't agree with their mind. =)

Have you ever watched a Prit Paarn movie?

Have you ever seen "Howl's moving castle" ? =)

I call that director's laziness or Art for Art's Sake. It's intellectual laziness to leave many things unresolved and asking the viewer to figure it out for herself. It's called arrogance too.

That's your point of view. I don't agree with, because I think there is a different between throw ideas and drawings to let the public alone, and give some informations about the story and the character to slowly let the public have his own explanation, without imposed the director's point of view. But I respect your opinion, I may understand why you dislike oriental movies... as I really hate nonsensical animations (a little like the example you've linked above.. or it seems to be, I haven't seen the entire project, so maybe I'm wrong)

If this way of storytelling would be generally permissible and acceptable than anyone could throw any numbers of elements of life in a hodge-podge way on the screen, stand back and say with great satisfaction, There! I just finished another one of my GREAT masterpieces. Now if all films would be made with this degree of self love, how soon would it take you to get tired of all movies?

I'm sorry about what I'm going to say... but I think you're speaking without knowing And the worse is (it seems, for me) you don't want to know this universe... So.. how can you criticise something you don't know ? I'm perplex By the way, there's not only the storytelling side, but the animation, the backgrounds, the music... there are many other good things in Japanese animations, in particular with Ghibli =)

Since there are people who lose sleep and are tormented by getting a good story out and in the most exciting way (this takes time and lots and lots of self torture, then there is also room for pretentious people as described above and we are all happy because we can say either, That's not for me, or, That's for me but not for you, I guess. (sniff).

Wouldn't you be a little... jealous ?
Do you think Tezuka or Miyazaki sleep (has slept for Tezuka...) 15 hours per day ? Their works are incredibly huge ! They drawn and worked as many as you. And they also be tortured by stories, and delays and what people will think about their works. That's sad for you Tulip hasn't get the fame she deserved. But... it's life... and you cannot denigrate other artists' gift.

You know, I wanted to be a storyboarder, and I'worked for this, and I know I won't never be. But that's not a reason to hate Mads Juul

(sorry, it's not really a good comparison... but I don't know what I can write to make you smile >_<)

.......

................Do you know Van Gogh's story ?

[Sierra Rose]

As someone whose tastes run close to Paul's, I wouldn't say that his criticisms come from jealousy or disappointment about Tulip's fame. He has far more than his "ten thousand hours" (reference to OUTLIERS) behind him and is in a position to discern the work that goes into film. I think he is a Master and I have respect for his descriptions of what fails for him in others' films.

I don't have to agree, but I do find it extremely interesting to hear what someone of his caliber really thinks about the films under consideration and I have learned a great deal over the years from his taking time to offer this.

When JUMP left me cold, I didn't take the time to articulate why I wasn't crazy about it...I just went back to work toward my own ten thousand hours of drawing. I think it's a kind of generosity on Paul's part to share what he really thinks and to say it so clearly.

[Fabrice]

As someone whose tastes run close to Paul's, I wouldn't say that his criticisms come from jealousy or disappointment about Tulip's fame. He has far more than his "ten thousand hours" (reference to OUTLIERS) behind him and is in a position to discern the work that goes into film. I think he is a Master and I have respect for his descriptions of what fails for him in others' films.

I don't have to agree, but I do find it extremely interesting to hear what someone of his caliber really thinks about the films under consideration and I have learned a great deal over the years from his taking time to offer this.

When JUMP left me cold, I didn't take the time to articulate why I wasn't crazy about it...I just went back to work toward my own ten thousand hours of drawing. I think it's a kind of generosity on Paul's part to share what he really thinks and to say it so clearly.

I would really like to have Paul's opinion about some Ghibli films, such as "the grave of fireflies" (Takahata), or "my neighbor totoro" (Miyazaki). It could be very interesting for everybody.
Do you remember Sierra ? We were speaking about them in Mirage forum, because you was looking for some human/children faces to draw