Working in Very High (>HD) resolutions

[meslin]

Hello all!

I'm currently running TVP9 Pro on two different WinXP machines - a Dual Core 2.8 GHz desktop (3GB RAM) and a Core 2 Duo 2 GHz laptop (2GB). I have a freelance job that will be printed to 35mm, and they'd really like a 4K digital file but will accept 2K. Even though the animation is less than 30 seconds long, neither of my machines can display this amount of data with an acceptable level of responsiveness (for scrubbing, etc). I acknowledge that this isn't any limitation on the part of TVPaint (of which I am evangelical and unilaterally supportive).

For my dollar, what's the most efficient way to increase the responsiveness at 2k or 4k resolution? RAID? Better processor? Graphics card? One of those dedicated HD things like Leitch makes?

One option I'd find useful would be a low-res (1/4 or so) proxy that I could scrub. I use the mouse wheel up and down as next frame and previous frame, and it works great as digital flipping tool. I tried the Contour Xpress Shuttle but the mouse wheel is actually more responsive.

Thanks for any input!

-David

[Fabrice]

One option I'd find useful would be a low-res (1/4 or so) proxy that I could scrub.

Hi Meslin,

Just change the data rate in the proxy settings.
Also, you can try to use the flip option, so you won't need to play all images.

I think that Raid disks may help.

[malcooning]

I think that Raid disks may help.

that's even an understatement.
I think improving your write/read access is the most efficient way to improve usability of HD projects resolutions in TVP.
I'm not sure how dedicated HD solutions affect TVP workflow (you mentioned Leitch), but you can setup a Raid of 4-5 low-cost disks, which will give much room to breath.

[meslin]

I will look into the RAID option -- thanks!

If I change the data rate in the preview settings, that only affects the playback, right? What about when I am just moving the playhead around with the mouse (or virtually via the mousewheel)? Can it lower the resolution during that action too?

[radams6]

Hi Meslin,

First can you give us a system breakdown of what you have...ie not just CPU and memory.
But how many drives ? what kind and speed are they.
How many partitions etc...


Here is a basic setup that will help.

a) A seperate drive or dual striped drives for your OS
b) A seperate of drive or dual striped drives for your applications
c) Have a raided set of 4 or more drives for your data storage..(and temp)
d) if you can have a seperate 4 drive raid just for your temp/swap space.

Now all of those drives should have NCQ support...and if can swing it...go with SAS drives 10K or better...especially for your raids
But NCQ is a huge help..

Now along with this make certain that you have a GOOD powers supply...that can properly power all the elements in your system

What Graphics Card are you using ?

Even thou TVP (from what I know) isn't using GPU acceration at the moment...You will still need a decent powerful card to help maximize throughput.

Now what kind of memory are you using on what kind of motherboard ?

There are things that you should shut down or off as to better use your CPU and memory.
What other applications are you running in the background ?
Do you use any drag to CD type software ? what kind of anti virus etc...are you using ?

Now, also the OS can be streamlined to better allow for throughput.

When working with this kind or resolution...you really need to think of your computer as a dedicated workstation for TVP and the project..

Take off all games, or software NOT needed for your project.

There are many more things to think about...but that should get you started.
I've setup many a system to work with high resolution workflows...

Also how full are your drives...and when was the last time your defragmented....clean off your drives of anything you don't need to do the job.

Good luck...also think of doing smaller frame count clips....break the project down into 10 sec. or less parts....
it also may help to work with seperate projects of specific elemets to better get their timing and interaction...then comp those back with combining several projects into one.

Cheers,

Ray Adams

[radams6]

I do have to ask thou...

You are looking for playback options...(not from TVP) ?

and responsiveness within TVP...is that correct ?

None of the HD cards are really going to help you with 2K or above...at least none that are affordable

Fabrice -is TVP supporting any third party hardware....ie, black magic, AJA, etc ?

2K + is really pushing things....

There are some disk based playback systems...Iridas...has a good one.
And higher end compositors do like Fusion etc....

Another option is to output to a lower resolution...to make certain that yur motion is working the way you want.

BTW. Why can't the movie company up rez from HD material ?
Can't they accept that ? ...that would help you out...
Where are they posting their movie...What DI or Lab processes are they going thru ?

Paul, aren't you just creating in HD and having it uprez'd ?

Again, good luck..

Cheers,

[Paul Fierlinger]

I work with 1080p in TVP and output temporarily as 720p to Vegas to edit because my computer and Vegas can't run 1080p smoothly. My TVP has absolutely no problems running 1080p smoothly, but as soon as Sandra gets my projects and starts laying on colors, there goes realtime playback.
Ray, I agree with your question about why any outfit wants anything so big? I'd be interested in seeing what kind of graphics are we talking about here. I have seen my work converted to 35 mm film and blown up to an almost 40 foot screen and everything looked exactly the way it looks on our monitors and it's an astonishing sight. I can't see any reason to go bigger -- can you? Can anybody here?

Both of our computers:

MoBo: Asus P51D2-deluxe
CPU: Dual core processor 3.4GHZ, 64-Bit/32-Bit,
800 MHz FSB, 2MB l2 Cache, LGA 775
Memory: 1GB DDR2 533Mhz 4GB
Raid: SATA 8 port
SATA Raid controller
HDs: 7 ST3500630AS 500GB video
SATA 3 raid 5 2 mirrored
Videocard: Nvidia PCIE 16 quad 256 MB RAM
Monitor: 3 Acer 24” LCD 1920x1200

[Klaus Hoefs]

I used to work with 2048 x 1152; 1:1 Square in TVP on my Alienware laptop: Dual Core 2.33 and with SLI, 2 x 512MB NVidia without any problems , TVP Data Rate 93.6 MB/s - but having not many color-layers.

Output to Vegas 1024x576 (as RGB uncompr.) compressed the loose lines and blank holes, giving it more intensity.

[meslin]

Ray, thanks for all the information!

I am looking for responsiveness in TVP, yes. So far it's usable but scrubbing (dragging playhead back and forth) is not helpful for timing options (as it is in 720p for example).

The reason they want it in 2K is that this animated 'bug' is the production company's identification clip, like the boy fishing from the moon for Dreamworks, etc. So they cannot foresee the different scales this animation will have to be printed on...
The good news about animation like this is that it's very short (about ten seconds). And in this style, it's all on one layer. So it's actually very few images (240 images at 24fps x 10 sec x 1 layer) but they're at a higher resolution than my system is comfortable displaying quickly.

I don't have any unnecessary software on the machine--my desktop is strictly for offline use so it doesn't have antivirus garbage on there. I have 3GB of the cheapest memory that fit my motherboard (whatever the Dell workstation came with).

David

[radams6]

Hi Meslin (David)

SO you have a Dell...a 690 workstation ?

Personally Dell's need a lot more setup than many others.

Most of the Guys and Studios I know who use dells....delete the whole system and reload the system from scratch and setup the bios for their needs.
The off the shelf Dells are not tweeked well for production needs. too much crap !!!!

Glad to hear that you keep your system as production systems rather than your general machines.

What Hard drives are you running ? Quantity, Type, speed , interface, etc....
Always keep your swap/temp space on a seperate FAST drive that has nothing on it. Better that is also be raided...Raid 0 is perfect for that.

Do you have the 3 gig switch for the OS ?

What Graphics card do you have ?

My suggestion...if you haven't setup systems before like this...is to touch base with someone who knows how to push the system..and setup the bios and OS....

You can get 25-50% improvement in system responsiveness just with the proper config and system setup (bios, OS and applications).

Cheers,

[meslin]

Ray,

I did do a full re-install on my Dell (it's a typical Dimension workstation that was purchased for under $1,000).
I didn't do any BIOS tweaks, though. And I've never set up a RAID.
I do have the 3GB switch in the boot.ini.
As for video cards, I have a poorly-reviewed ATI All-In-Wonder 2007 which has 256MB video ram. I got it for about a hundred dollars before I bought this system because I wanted to watch television (spare me your quibbles with that! ).
Right now I have a single 750GB Seagate SATA 7200rpm drive. It seems to me that this is the bottleneck--no RAID?
I've never set up a high-performance system before, and it doesn't look like this one will ever be upgraded enough to quality for said category.
But I am definitely interested in learning about what performance gains are to be had through RAIDS vs. faster processors.

Ideally a TVPaint and hardware expert could put together a shopping cart on NewEgg.com and call it the TVPaint Workstation Package. And then promote it here.

Thanks again so much for info!!
David

[Peter Wassink]

Ideally a TVPaint and hardware expert could put together a shopping cart on NewEgg.com and call it the TVPaint Workstation Package. And then promote it here.

great notion, actually.
I would immediately have bought such a machine... had i not just recently purchased a Dell

[Sewie]

Yes, a suggested hardware config would be een good idea !

[slowtiger]

Just any desktop Macintosh not older than 5 yrs will do ... *ducks*

[meslin]

Speaking of TVP-friendly systems and Dells, the new Dell Studio XPS is supposed to be very fast and cheap-- read a review here: http://www.desktopreview.com/default.asp?newsID=537
Is the data rate test the only benchmark necessary to compare functional speed in TVP?