Some Questions...

[Debo]

Hi everyone -- I'm new here.

I'm planning to try the trial version of TVPaint, but have some questions. On one page of the TVPaint site, it says this:

"The trial of TVP Animation Standard & Professional Edition is not time limited but you can not save (and export) your work and water marked are present on the project."

On another however, it says this:

"Why not give it a try ? The free trial version is fully functional and 30-days limited and comes with the user manual so that you can learn how to use the software during your trial period."

So, which one is it?

Also, when I try to download the PDF manual, my browser (Safari) crashes. I'm on a Mac, running OS 10.5.5. Furthermore, when I try to send TVPaint an e-mail via Contact Us, I get a message that says I need to fill in all the required fields, even though I did fill in everything. Very peculiar.

Lastly, is it possible to purchase and download the full version once you have the trial version -- that is, without having to contact a reseller first? I'm asking because I'm from Holland, and the reseller there doesn't list any prices. It just seems easier to me to directly download it.

I hope anyone can help me out. Thanks in advance.

[Paul Fierlinger]

The trial version is fully functional in the sense that all the features can be tried out and you can work with the software the same way as anyone who already owns it. What you can't do is export/save your work... wouldn't that be giving away the product for free?

[malcooning]

But Debo is right Paul, it's confusing.

With version 8.x of TVP, you had 2 choices:
1. Pro version came functional BESIDE the ability to save and export
2. Standard version came FULLY functional for 30 days, and remained that way even AFTER the 30 days, only that a watermark was added on top of your saved projects and all exports.

The current version available for trial (TVP 9) is available as the PRO version only (no option for Standard), and gives you LIMITED functionality (no save/export), and a watermark on the project (although you can't even export it) regardless of the 30 days period. So in the end of the day, it is wrong to write FULLY functional for 30 days. Many people want to check the export capabilities, but can't. Many of the serious software at their 30-day trial period give you full functionality, including saving and exporting (i.e. Adobe products). I think the approach to the trial with versions 8.x was the right one, as the immediate limitation that the TVP 9 trial imposes on you is annoying and, well, LIMITING: For Certain, a trial should let you taste EVERYTHING about a product, particularly when the customer is about to spend hundreds of Euros/Dollars on it. Such allowance indicated openness and generosity on behalf of the creator of the software, and the creator should be confident enough to believe that the potential client will get addicted to the software and will be grieved enough to see it having no more functionality after 30 days - and will be much more persuaded to put the money on.

(It's a classic approach to marketing - which was inaugurated by Coca Cola: For the 1st century of selling Coca Cola drinks anywhere on the planet, free coupons were given around - more so in developing countries - for the market to get into the taste of Coke. Then, when the market was addicted, the drink went on regular sales - with prices constantly rising in very slow rates)

[Paul Fierlinger]

I suppose you are right, but if you know what you are looking for, if you then find that the application can really do most, if not all the things you were ever hoping for, would you really abandon the thought of buying it just because you can't see how you would export your work? One look at the Gallery should give anyone a pretty good idea that exporting works.

[malcooning]

I suppose you are right, but if you know what you are looking for, if you then find that the application can really do most, if not all the things you were ever hoping for, would you really abandon the thought of buying it just because you can't see how you would export your work? One look at the Gallery should give anyone a pretty good idea that exporting works.

I wouldn't rely on that. As a veteran user you KNOW the potential of TVP. But a newcomer will encounter a steep learning curve, as is usual with this software, which'll take around a month for the user to start seeing the real pizazz of TVP.
TVP is not yet an industry standard, and unfortunately still doesn't have the glamor needed for a red-carpet. Therefore TVP needs to show it's full regalia for as much as possible, including the export session window, which is yet another feature that showcases flexibility by allowing export of single frame, sequence, animation, custom brush, different format etc. Industry people care ALOT about such things. Even here in the forums we had endless threads dicussing different exporting formats - and all the features that has been added with the experience and the hard work shall go without saying - or in other words, should be allowed to explore within the grace period of trial.

[Paul Fierlinger]

I guess you're right again... I have forgotten about the learning curve issue...

[Debo]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I have to say, though: I'm not worried about the steep learning curve per se. I know it's a tremendous task, trying to master a new program such as this one, but I've been very impressed with the work some TVP users have done -- it might be the only animation app I need. In other words, it obviously pays off. It's just that I want to be sure I can optimally test it before I buy. There are so many animation programs, I have to know I pick the right one.

But let me get this clear: a user can use the trial for an unlimited amount of time -- but not all of its features?

On a related note: is there anything I should know before I purchase/try TVP? I mean, any recommendations, suggestions, things to look out for, et cetera?

[Paul Fierlinger]

is there anything I should know before I purchase/try TVP? I mean, any recommendations, suggestions, things to look out for, et cetera?

How do you work? What's your style? Are you thinking of drawing paperlessly or scanning in your paper drawings? Maybe you don't draw at all... it'd be easier to help you out if we knew some of this stuff about you.

[Debo]

I've never been so excellent at drawing digitally, so I'm going to say I prefer scanning my drawings. I'm not saying I'll never learn it, but in the main, I feel what I produce digitally lacks a bit of the punch and the fluency of my paper-based animations. Also, ever since I was a kid, I've had a certain "unique" grip on my pen (I hold it between my index finger and middle finger, instead of index finger and thumb) that makes it hard for me to draw on tablets -- I always feel a little shaky doing it, like an insecure tightrope walker. I can do it with practice no doubt, but if I had the choice...

What I would prefer, is to draw my characters on paper, perhaps embellish them a bit in Photoshop (and do the backgrounds in Photoshop as well), then make them move in an animation app. I'd like to know how versatile TVP is in that regard: does it allow you to tweak and bend a scanned character, move its limbs and head, modify it, and so forth? Sure, all animation apps allow that (that's what they do), but how many tools does TVP have to help you with such a task? Animation is always going to be hard work, but I'd like to know if an app is going to make that work a little bit easier. Does TVP allow you to import a background painted in Photoshop, then animate your scanned characters on top of that (on a separate layer or otherwise)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSJARRAZ ... re=related

Perhaps you remember those Tin Tin cartoons from the 1990s -- they may not win any prizes for animation nowadays, but they're very efficient, economical, and to the point. I'm always regarding them as a measure of sorts. Would cartoons like these be possible only in TVP Pro, or also in TVP Standard? If they're possible to do in both, what's the advantage TVP Pro has? (I thought it might be easy to have a concrete example here, hence the Tin Tin cartoon.) When I look at some of the work of TVP users, I'd say: yes, that's very possible. But I don't know what other apps they've used: Photoshop, After Effects, Final Cut Pro, Avid, Illustrator, you name them -- perhaps Toon Boom even, for clean-ups and whatnot.

If you could answer these questions or at least point me in the right direction, I'd be very thankful.

[slowtiger]

Bending a scanned drawing ... hm ...
IMO, TVP isn't optimized to do that specific task. It is much better for drawing/animating new images for each frame. Manipulating an existing drawing is a bit complicated (although it got better) and mostly restricted to the usual scale/rotate/translate combo.

Your description sounds as if you might be happier with cutout animation. The problem is that you either do cutout style, or full (drawn) animation - but a software can only be optimized for one task at a time. If you really want to do cutout, have a look at "Anime Studio" which is great for that specific style because it provides a bone system for characters.

At least I can say that I don't use Photoshop anymore for animation - everything is done in TVP, all colouring and texturizing, and much faster than in PS. This was my main argument to buy TVP: just the colouring was 10x faster than in PS.

TVP can import and export nearly everything, I even use it to translate strange video formats to more useful ones. You can combine whatever technique you want - scanned artwork, image files from photoshop or from your digital camera, video footage, and of course create artwork directly in TVP.

But don't expect one software to do everything. Most of us work with a bunch of programs, at least some video editing suite to assemble scenes and sound.

The Tintin cartoons (I grew up with them!) are hand-drawn the traditional way. You will not achieve a similar result with cutouts, I'm sorry. They are done really economically, but by animators who knew the principles.

[Fabrice]

Hi everyone -- I'm new here.

I'm planning to try the trial version of TVPaint, but have some questions. On one page of the TVPaint site, it says this:

"The trial of TVP Animation Standard & Professional Edition is not time limited but you can not save (and export) your work and water marked are present on the project."

On another however, it says this:

"Why not give it a try ? The free trial version is fully functional and 30-days limited and comes with the user manual so that you can learn how to use the software during your trial period."

So, which one is it?

Also, when I try to download the PDF manual, my browser (Safari) crashes. I'm on a Mac, running OS 10.5.5. Furthermore, when I try to send TVPaint an e-mail via Contact Us, I get a message that says I need to fill in all the required fields, even though I did fill in everything. Very peculiar.

Lastly, is it possible to purchase and download the full version once you have the trial version -- that is, without having to contact a reseller first? I'm asking because I'm from Holland, and the reseller there doesn't list any prices. It just seems easier to me to directly download it.

I hope anyone can help me out. Thanks in advance.

Hi Debo,

Sorry for this late answer ... (too much problems with the server and electric installation here) I will send you an email asap.

[ZigOtto]

Sorry for this late answer ... (too much problems with the server and electric installation here) I will send you an email asap.

why not to answer here, some other fellows could be interested too,
at least for the first 2 questions :
"trial version limitation policy" and "Mac crashes when downloading PDF manual".

[Fabrice]

ok, Zig

"Why not give it a try ? The free trial version is fully functional and 30-days limited and comes with the user manual so that you can learn how to use the software during your trial period."

This sentence came from TVP Animation 8.0 days ... (we will rectify the things in the website asap).
With TVP Animation 9.0, the save and export option are not available anymore.
It allows us to avoid piracy.
(it's always disturbing when you spend two years of time, effort and money to create a new versions and see it on emule or bitorrent just after a few days )

Also, when I try to download the PDF manual, my browser (Safari) crashes. I'm on a Mac, running OS 10.5.5. Furthermore, when I try to send TVPaint an e-mail via Contact Us, I get a message that says I need to fill in all the required fields, even though I did fill in everything. Very peculiar.

We can't reproduce the bug here, but will make more tests.

Lastly, is it possible to purchase and download the full version once you have the trial version -- that is, without having to contact a reseller first?

If you don't succeed to contact your reseller, or if there is no reseller in your country, you can buy any version directly from the website.
We use the Paypal system which is also used by Amazon or Ebay, so it's secured if you want to use any credit card.
If you have any problem please leave an email to store at tvpaint dot fr

[Debo]

Thanks, slowtiger. That's very helpful; I'll take it all into account -- especially the bit about PS. I suppose I don't really expect one package to do it all -- I'm just looking for one that does all the rest.



I was actually just looking at Anime Studio Pro, thinking of perhaps using a combination of both (TVP & ASP). Would you recommend ASP yourself?

The thing is, I have (I hope) an understanding of "the principles": that is, I know my Muybridge and Williams and Disney Twins and everyone else you've probably studied too. Life drawings? I've got crates of the stuff. It's just that only now, now I'm planning to actually enter the field, animation apps come into view and I'm not quite sure what I should expect or what I should be looking for. Which app actually rewards hard work -- which one can produce, depending on what you bring to it of course, the best results? Well, Animo and Retas I suppose: but those prices are a bit above my budget, as I'm going to need a new computer too to handle the really big files (on an old PowerBook here)... I suppose the question that it all boils down to is: which animation application helps you the most, and gives you the best options, i.e. is the most "complete"?

I realize the bulk of these questions can be answered just by downloading the trial, but still I'd like to hear other people's feedback.

Also: thanks, Fabrice.

[Debo]

Oh, one more thing: if I buy it directly from the site: is the VAT included in the price of 950 euros?