Traditional Lighttable Function

[toonsisters]

I would like to ask for an effect on the lighttable to move and rotate previous and next keyframes for drawing exact inbetweens.
This effect should only be shown in the lighttable function and do not affect the original keyframes.
It should be set and reset easily in the lighttable panel (maybe as a box to be checked above the sliders and the keyframes should be transformed easily (maybe with a rectangle around the drawing with little symbols for move and rotate, which appear if you drag the cursor over, like we know of photoshop).

This function would help drawing exact inbetwees, even if the keys have quite a distance.

What do you think?

[ZigOtto]

good idea!
a (virtual ) temporary "out of pegs" feature, working only in the LightTable preview mode.

[Peter Wassink]

i like this idea.

(apart from the program difficulties) we have to think of an intuitive interface though...

i now often use an empty corner of my frame,
where i copy (and sometimes rotate ) parts of my animation... for this purpose.
i then pick up the resulting inbetween and place it on its intended position

[toonsisters]

Yes Peter,

this is how we try to solve the problem at the moment, too.

But I think for future version here is a good point to improve the convincing features for traditional workers to change to digital animating.

I hope we won't wait too long for it.

[toonsisters]

And to Zig,

EXACTLY
thank you for bringing it to the point.

I thought, complicated expressing would make it more challenging for you.

[D.T. Nethery]

I would like to ask for an effect on the lighttable to move and rotate previous and next keyframes for drawing exact inbetweens.
This effect should only be shown in the lighttable function and do not affect the original keyframes.
It should be set and reset easily in the lighttable panel (maybe as a box to be checked above the sliders and the keyframes should be transformed easily (maybe with a rectangle around the drawing with little symbols for move and rotate, which appear if you drag the cursor over, like we know of photoshop).

This function would help drawing exact inbetwees, even if the keys have quite a distance.

What do you think?

good idea!
a (virtual ) temporary "out of pegs" feature, working only in the LightTable preview mode.

I think it's a great idea. I know for a fact that ToonBoom is working on something like this or has implemented it in their custom build of Harmony for Disney. (I heard this in discussion with people who worked on Disney's new film Princess & the Frog, which was mostly animated on paper, but there is a strong push to go paperless on the next 2D feature at Disney.)
The ability to simulate "shift drawings off-pegs' would be a very helpful function in TVP .

[slowtiger]

I second this motion!

[Satrip]

Me too, important missing feature!

[Peter Wassink]

Indeed! This is a big 'animators' request.
But let us define the feature more precise here.
What do you want TVP to do and how?
What can we think of in terms of interface that would actually make it much better, cleaner and faster then using an empty corner of the frame?

I agree with toonsisters first suggestions.
Because 'off pegging' on paper is practically always done on the lightable this feature should probably find a place in the lighttable panel.
What is needed is a way to temporarily apply all transforms (panning , scale, angle) to one or two (or more?) specific frame(s).
It seems logic to use the lighttable for the selection of that frame. It is most likely we want to 'Offpeg' one or more of the frames that are at that point activated in the lightable.
After we are done inbetweening, one click should restore the frames to their old 'pegged' state... unharmed!

[Fabrice]

I'm not exactly sure to understand the request.

Please can someone post an approximate picture of what the lighttable should be ?

[Paul Fierlinger]

When you start drawing an inbetween in paper animation it often helps if you can tear out a small piece of paper with the character to shove under the new sheet of paper. You use this "template" to trace a new drawing between the two key drawings. Then you remove the "template" drawing and clean up your new inbetween. What they are asking for here is a way to pan one of the two drawings to a position where you can trace it within the LT -- a virtual "template". It's a good idea in my opinion. This is why this LT virtual image needs to be panned and tilted to cover the two basic directions you would move a scrap of paper with a drawing on it into the right position to trace. At least this is how I understand what's being discussed here.

[slowtiger]

Pulling drawings "off the pegs":

I have my two existing drawings A and C and want to inbetween B. The characters on A and C are very far apart or tilted to each other so an inbetween is difficult to do. Assistant's trick: first I roughly indicate on a new sheet where my inbetween B is going to be. Then I take one of the drawings A or C off the pegs and place it over the other so the character aligns, and place sheet B on top. Now the inbetween B can be created easily, but is off the pegs as well.

The corresponding function in TVP would need to handle at least 3 drawings "off the pegs", with an indication of their original position. In real life this would be the corners of the paper. In TVP this could be a set of two crosshairs left and right from the center of the drawing.

The function would need translate, rotate, and scale, since all of these apply to inbetweening.

Don't know if this was clear enough, next week I could do a sketch of this.

[Paul Fierlinger]

Well, I guess I just interpreted what was being said here to the way I used to work -- to me it sounds like a lot of shifting of papers to make just one drawing. What I do now when there are two keys far apart is I draw drawing B right over A (or C) and then pan it to the middle where it belongs and finish it there. Doing this via the LT sounds pretty elegant to me though.

[Peter Wassink]

Pulling drawings "off the pegs":

I have my two existing drawings A and C and want to inbetween B. The characters on A and C are very far apart or tilted to each other so an inbetween is difficult to do. Assistant's trick: first I roughly indicate on a new sheet where my inbetween B is going to be. Then I take one of the drawings A or C off the pegs and place it over the other so the character aligns, and place sheet B on top. Now the inbetween B can be created easily, but is off the pegs as well.

The corresponding function in TVP would need to handle at least 3 drawings "off the pegs", with an indication of their original position. In real life this would be the corners of the paper. In TVP this could be a set of two crosshairs left and right from the center of the drawing.

The function would need translate, rotate, and scale, since all of these apply to inbetweening.

Don't know if this was clear enough, next week I could do a sketch of this.

Very well explained Markus.
Though the minimum 'off the pegs' could be two, because either A or C from your example can remain 'on peg'. (even one if you don't mind repositioning the inbetween B by hand after drawing it)
But i guess that no matter how many frames you wish to 'off peg'...the main problem will be to come up with an elegant UI solution.

[slowtiger]

Very well explained

Thank you! I've done it a thousand times, but to write it down ...

the main problem will be to come up with an elegant UI solution

Definitely. There's just not enough controls available on a computer ...

The problem reminds me of the same dilemma in music. Nowadays music software is so complex that it can create sounds which are undistinguishable from naturally played ones. But in order to get the same degree of expression, one has to tweak too many controllers at the same time. There's keyboards and MIDI controllers and foot pedals and laser harps ... but still the old-fashioned mechanical interfaces of a guitar, a violin, or a trumpet provide greater flexibility and more control. We still haven't evolved very far from drawing with the first mouse.