Coloring in TV Paint??? Really that bad??

[Bandita]

Hi community.

Im working for the first time with TV Paint, just because I thought it would be way faster than animating on paper and scanning.
But I'm really dissapointed about some of the features.
Things even go on slower than animating analog.

I'm animating in a way rough style, with a pencil simulated brush. My outlines are dirty and not very clean, also I have the crisp edges of the brush.
Coloring is almost just using the brush tool and paint it manual frame by frame, every region. cause the fill-tool requires adjustments on every region I want to fill and it still isn't perfect, altrhough I play with all parameters like range, expand and gapclose, i have too much i have to correct by the brush tool!!

I use Animo normally, coloring is almost automatic!! For example the magic fill tool, where you draw a retangle around all unpainted regions, and it fills them automatically. Ok, there the outlines are converted into vectors, but the bitmap lineart still exists!
I'm even thinking about coloring in Animo, but the export-import-converting process gives a quality loss, so I cant do it.


I'm just wondering if I have missed something in the manual or if coloring in TV Paint is really that uninovative for an application which should actually improve your pipeline....??

Are there any coloring tools I overlooked????


Many greetings from germany

[ZigOtto]

hi Bandita, you're welcome!

could you upload a couple of samples of your drawing (line-only, and idem+colors)
to show us what/why's not working for you ?

[Fabrice]

Welcome on the TVPaint forum Bandita !

I'm animating in a way rough style, with a pencil simulated brush. My outlines are dirty and not very clean, also I have the crisp edges of the brush.

Did you use the subpixel/AAlisaing option ? Can you post some screenshot please ? That would help us to help you for sure

but the export-import-converting process gives a quality loss, so I cant do it

why don't you use a format that don't have a quality loss ? (tga, psd, ...)

[Matthew]

Maybe this is a solution:

Make a new layer for the colors and put it below the ink/pencil layer. Select the FloodFill tool and in the parameters box for that tool set Source to Display and Expand to 2. Now, on the color layer, click inside the area to be filled.

The color will be below the line layer, so when the color expands it will not destroy the line.

Of course, the job is complicated if there are lots of line gaps and rough drawings. To get a good result in this situation, I usually use the FreehandFill tool and draw in the color manually on a layer below my lines.

[ematecki]

In addition to what Matthew said.

Add another layer just above the color layer, and use it to fill the gaps with a line drawn here. This can be done in a really dirty way, it won't show in the final image.
Even if your gaps are very wide, this will close them, and even following the path you want !

You have to set the "Fill" option of the flood-fill tool to "Front" to use all layers in front of the current one as borders for the flood-fill. Maybe you'll have to temporary hide some foreground layers.

To speed up the coloring even more, first fill in all the gaps on all images, then do the coloring with "Auto Pick Color" enabled, and using the LightTable to show the previous frame, as described somewhere in the manual.

Once done with the coloring, either hide or delete that helping layer to recover your original look.

See the attached project.

Use the one in my succeding message, this one got corrupted.

EM.

[ZigOtto]

Eric, your GapCloser project (145.52 KB) seems to be empty ...

[ematecki]

Try this one, the other one got corrupted somewhere ...

[D.T. Nethery]

I'm animating in a way rough style, with a pencil simulated brush. My outlines are dirty and not very clean, also I have the crisp edges of the brush. Coloring is almost just using the brush tool and paint it manual frame by frame, every region, because the fill-tool requires adjustments on every region I want to fill and it still isn't perfect, altrhough I play with all parameters like range, expand and gapclose, i have too much i have to correct by the brush tool!!

I believe I understand this problem Bandita refers to . It is not only about "gaps" , but more about the rough lines creating many separate regions on a layer , so it is difficult to use the paint bucket Flood Fill tool , even with parameters such as Range and Expand adjusted . The Range and Expand parameters which work on one region of a rough drawing will not necessarily work on another region, so sometimes the Expand/Range is too much , spilling out past the lines or other times not enough expand , so it leaves areas which must be filled in manually with FreeHand line/ brush tool or FreeHand Fill tool .

I too have used Animo in the past and I understand what is being said by Bandita : Animo will preserve the rough line bitmap layer , but create vector regions which are filled with paint automatically (flood fill) . I think Bandita is asking if there a way to do something similar in TVPaint so that painting large areas of color on rough line animation drawings is automated rather than painting manually frame by frame ?

For coloring rough drawings I often use the FreeHand Flood tool as mentioned by Matthew :

"Of course, the job is complicated if there are lots of line gaps and rough drawings. To get a good result in this situation, I usually use the FreehandFill tool and draw in the color manually on a layer below my lines."

However , this can be a somewhat slow method when coloring many rough animation drawings.

Is there a better (faster) way to flood fill color on rough drawings ? That is what I think Bandita is asking .



Ematecki responded :

"In addition to what Matthew said.

Add another layer just above the color layer, and use it to fill the gaps with a line drawn here. This can be done in a really dirty way, it won't show in the final image. Even if your gaps are very wide, this will close them, and even following the path you want !

You have to set the "Fill" option of the flood-fill tool to "Front" to use all layers in front of the current one as borders for the flood-fill. Maybe you'll have to temporary hide some foreground layers."

Maybe I don't understand because I am still trying to figure out how to apply that method to color rough line drawings of the kind I believe Bandita is referring to , or at least the kind I am referring to (see below) .

The example in the file uploaded by Ematecki works for closing "gaps" , but I don't understand how to apply this to filling in rough line drawings which have many separate regions created by the various groups of grey pixels on the rough drawing
(i.e. , the under-drawing/construction lines , and the rough sketchy lines around the edges)

See my attached example of a rough line drawing of a cartoon Mr. Duck .
The way I color this sort of rough line animation drawing is to use the FreeHand fill tool , adding color on a layer underneath the drawing.

Can anyone show me how the method suggested by Ematecki would color this drawing quickly with FloodFill tool (paint bucket) ? My .tvp file of the Mr. Duck drawing is attached here , if anyone would like to try it and maybe even make a video screen capture demo showing the procedure.

[ZigOtto]

Hi David,

I personally use a roughly similar method than Eric have mentionned above :

- first make a "dummy" drawing-layer by duplicating your pencil drawing, and hide the original,
- (FX_Stack) filter the duplicated one to get a hard line, and to get rid of the light-greys,
(light-mark=1 + Histo on Alpha channel),
- draw roughly to close where you see it will be needed (in red on my quicktime), to prevent leaking,
- then go to your (empty) color layer, and flood-fill the colors with the right settings
(here : Source=Front, Fill=Density Only, GapCloser=0 , Expand=2, Range=60);
- then, hide the dummy (line) layer and fill (mode= behind) the small remaining holes
- and finally show (switch to visible) the original Drawing Layer.



http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/25/ ... edduck.mov

Animated Gif of the 6 steps below.

[D.T. Nethery]

- first make a "dummy" drawing-layer by duplicating your pencil drawing, and hide the original,
- (FX_Stack) filter the duplicated one to get a hard line, and to get rid of the light-greys,
(light-mark=1 + Histo on Alpha channel),
- draw roughly to close where you see it will be needed (in red on my quicktime), to prevent leaking,
- then go to your (empty) color layer, and flood-fill the colors with the right settings
(here : Source=Front, Fill=Density Only, GapCloser=0 , Expand=2, Range=60);
- then, hide the dummy (line) layer and fill (mode= behind) the small remaining holes
- and finally show (switch to visible) the original Drawing Layer.

Thank you ! That's very helpful. I appreciate the screen caps of the process and the precise numbers for the Expand and Range settings.

[ZigOtto]

... I appreciate the screen caps of the process

thanks to the DemoRecorder!

... and the precise numbers for the Expand and Range settings.

the setting values must be adjusted regarding the original drawing quality,
(scanner acquisition, resolution, soft/hard pencil, ...)
and so the (pre-applied) filter settings.

[Bandita]

Thank you for your answers. Although they're helpful they're not that much more time saving. I think the coloring tool in TVPaint urgentliy needs improvement for the next version!
It's really a pain in the a** coloring thousands of frames like that.

Mysuggestion is orienting at Animos coloring tools!! Wish I did the project analog with pencil and paper....



Thanks again and many Greetz

[reginaldsnoo]

[quoteI use Animo normally, coloring is almost automatic!![/quote]

as a mtter of interest, why did you stop using Animo? I have been interested in that program, but never seen it, or been able to talk with anyone who has

[Bandita]

Hey, I stoped using animo because the development of the application has stopped. Everything is going to be digital now in 2d animation, and I thought I would also save time drawing digital. Thats unfortunatly not the case. I'm drawing witha cintiq and even despite drawing on the screen it is another feeling, and you always have the glass between you and the drawing. I'm drawing much faster on paper... :/

I hope industry will go back to traditional animation.... but I doubt it... ://

[ZigOtto]

... and I thought I would also save time drawing digital. Thats unfortunatly not the case...
I'm drawing much faster on paper...

well, probably just a matter of times, ... I mean practice, and perseverance.