The "Dain App That Can Convert 24 FPS Video into 60 FPS Video" Something Like That. <-Top Priority on the List, Not Bugs

[TheQuestionMark]

I just saw something! I think TVPaint can use something like but more than just Nvidia cards. But if it can usefor all video cards. My dream slowly coming true to have anime 60 FPS! I've said 60 FPS anime in TVPaint forum a long time ago too. You can actually fit the budget, talking to SlowTiger. I want to disney render of FPS.
Something like the Dain AApp that can convert and 24 FPS Video in 60 FPS or a partifular FPS.





Here the site of the software. I think this is priority for TVPaint implement something like that.
https://grisk.itch.io/dain-app

[slowtiger]

Definitely not.

60fps is for gamers only, not for watching cartoons. Anybody who wants it uses special hardware anyway. It makes no sense to blow up file size and loading times in production of animation - "ain't nobody got time for this!" Do you really want to inbetween for 60 fps?

[schwarzgrau]

While I not agree with every aspect in this video he got some interesting points against converting animation from 24 to 60 fps

[D.T. Nethery]

While I not agree with every aspect in this video he got some interesting points against converting animation from 24 to 60 fps

https://youtu.be/_KRb_qV9P4g

Yes, I'm not a fan of this "rant" style of presentation , but he does demonstrate the problem of "converting" (interpolating) animation at 24 fps to 60 fps. To my way of thinking , if someone really thinks it's important to have animation at 48 fps or 60 fps , then just do it honestly and intentionally by animating at the higher frame rate with the understanding that it takes a lot more work (why anyone would want to do 2x or 2.5x the number of drawings is beyond me , but whatever turns you on ... )


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I remember several years ago reading about Glen Keane animating his Google Spotlight Stories piece , "Duet", at 60fps and thinking "Well, ok, if Google is paying him for the extra time it takes to generate those extra drawings , fine. Why not ?" Now, I've never seen "Duet" in the VR format at 60 fps , only the conventional short film version presented at regular 24 fps . I'll admit I'm still mildly curious to see it at 60 fps, but I don't notice that the animation is lacking anything when viewed at conventional 24 fps.

On Google Spotlight Stories YouTube channel , the short film version of "Duet" plays at 1080p resolution at 24 fps . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0Y35XLBY8A

Stepping through it frame by frame it appears to be a combination of animation "ON 1's" and "ON 2's" , in conventional terms. So I don't really understand if the VR presentation had interpolated frames to make it run at 60 fps or if the conventional short film presentation of "Duet" has had some frames removed so it runs at regular 24 fps ? However, if they had a 60 fps version I would have expected an option on YouTube to view the film at 1080p, 60 fps , but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Does anyone really feel like this animation lacks "smoothness" at 24 fps ?



But the main point being , if the animator intentionally animates at 60 fps , adapting his timing and spacing to that frame rate , it's ok , as long as the animator is comfortable doing 2.5x the number of usual drawings. What I find objectionable is the idea that someone who had nothing to do with creating the animation comes along later and decides to alter the animation that was originally animated at 24 fps (and looked fine at 24 fps) interpolating it by a computer program to 60 fps.

Interesting, too , that having experienced animating a project at 60 fps , Glen Keane's subsequent short films "Nephtali" and "Dear Basketball" are animated at conventional 24 fps. Apparently 60 fps was not that much of an improvement to persuade him to continue working at that higher frame rate ... or was it just the lack of Google's deep pockets to finance animating at 60 fps ? (I think it's probably the former , not the latter reason)

[slowtiger]

There's also the well-known phenomenon of converted animation being too soft, missing dynamic. This was observed in many a DVD of old shorts, you can easily spot them by taking screenshots which show a blurry blend of 2 or even more frames. It destroys all the animator's intentions. My decision about inbetweening, to draw 1 or 2 or more or no inbetween, is a conscious decision, I don't want any software mingle in and spoil what I've created.

[Neil Ingle]

Hello, I would like to bring attention to this post again.

Although I disagree with the original idea of using this interpolation tool to animate in 60 fps (mainly because I do not see the point, no offense to OP) I think that if you know what you are doing, automatic inbetweening using AI seems to be a vital feature for the future of animation software to me.

No tool will fully replace the quality of hand picked inbetweens, but having this at the disposal of animators could SIGNIFICANTLY improve the quality of life/productivity of us animators in certain cases. Having a tool implemented in TVPaint being able to rough out a first pass of inbetweens (think "straight in the middle" ones) as an FX stack or something is something so valuable that it would be a shame to dismiss this idea. I think technology should help animation be more fun and creative. inbetweening is one of the tasks I would gladly automate if that means spending more time on the animation itself (with a cleanup phase afterwards of course).

I genuinely think this can be an industry game changer : less animation sweatshops solely focused on inbetweening "western" animation ? Count me in!

I hope you'll at least consider something similar to this idea for the next implementation of the software, thanks !

[slowtiger]

Oh please, not again. If you are so afraid of inbetweening, maybe hand drawn 2D animation is not for you. I recommend learning any 3D CGI software, they're getting quite good with their toon shaders.

And don't call anything "AI". It's a marketing term and nothing else, it doesn't even describe a certain technique.

[Neil Ingle]

Wow, ok no need to be rude like this. I'm familiar with 3D animation softwares and puppet animation as well thank you.

I think there is much more appeal to 2D animation than tracing between two onion skinned frames, this mentality of "it's repetitive and time consuming, so it's essential that it stays a part of 2D animation" feels a bit like gatekeeping for me. There could be potentially so many new artists that could get interested in animation if there is tools that smooth out the process. Plus I'm sure there is a thousand creative uses for this as well.

I'm perfectly fine with drawing inbetweens myself, I'm paid by the day. I was just proposing the idea of using our current technology (I called it AI for simplicty's sake) to create a new creative tool that a lot of people would find useful.

[schwarzgrau]

Well used automatic inbetweening could be an amazing timesaver. The last years I worked on a personal project and most of the animation time I was just drawing thousands and thousands of "uncreative" inbetweens, since a lof of people move slowly and I tried to avoid choppy movement. This type of inbetweens could be automated easily, nothing would get lost and I would save a ton of time.

Blender Grease Pencil has it's automatic inbetweening, which looks like a great tool, if used wisely


But Blender uses some kind of vector lines, which makes such a tool way easier to implement. In a pixel based system like TVPaint it seems to be way more complex. You would need to moph from one image to another, which kind of works if you use pretty sharp lines and set up enough reference points, but for most cases it would be easier to just draw the inbetweens.

On a shot of my film where the camera dollies out I used Twixtor (an After Effects morphing plugin) to morph between different zoom levels of the characters, to maintain the line thickness. It kind of works, but it was a ton of work to make it kind of "okayish"
here you can see a WIP version (the film isn't released yet)