Warp grid artifcating

Please use this part to report bugs & errors, ask questions & "How to..."
acrookedheart
Posts: 124
Joined: 02 Apr 2017, 01:47
Contact:

Warp grid artifcating

Post by acrookedheart »

Can someone explain to me why this happens?

It's gone on for as long as I can remember but I never took the time to ask.
It happens when I use the Distortion-Warp Grid FX. I key whatever movement I need and after applying the FX, well you can see what happens.
And my settings for the FX are set to Smooth and Best method.

It's not always this bad. Sometimes its a few dots here and there.
Truckbed Creature.gif
Truckbed Creature.gif (19.04 KiB) Viewed 17092 times
Attachments
Ref.gif
Ref.gif
User avatar
Peter Wassink
Posts: 4429
Joined: 17 Feb 2006, 15:38
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by Peter Wassink »

Yes, i can confirm this.

13 Mar 2019, 14:36 i posted a report on this bug in the Beta forum.
Peter Wassink - 2D animator
• PC: Win11/64 Pro - AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core - 64Gb RAM
• laptop: Win10/64 Pro - i7-4600@2.1 GHz - 16Gb RAM
acrookedheart
Posts: 124
Joined: 02 Apr 2017, 01:47
Contact:

Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by acrookedheart »

I love the wrap grid tool but it's a pain when you have a long sequence and have to go back over it in whatever color that's screwed.
User avatar
Peter Wassink
Posts: 4429
Joined: 17 Feb 2006, 15:38
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by Peter Wassink »

i agree its a very usefull tool.

What i'd love to see (apart from having this bug fixed) is a custombrush input.
so instead of just the source and destination grid,
have some more options for the source input:
-source grid
-custombrush
-project
- etc....
Peter Wassink - 2D animator
• PC: Win11/64 Pro - AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core - 64Gb RAM
• laptop: Win10/64 Pro - i7-4600@2.1 GHz - 16Gb RAM
acrookedheart
Posts: 124
Joined: 02 Apr 2017, 01:47
Contact:

Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by acrookedheart »

This has not been fixed in the recent update. Is there a possible fix coming down the pipe?
I don't have the same issue with using the Distortion-Optical tool.
Also, it appears to be a transparency problem. When I create a new layer behind the problem and make it the same color, the problem is fixed by way of a band-aid. Of course its till an issue when dealing with a sequence.
SloppyIdle.mp4
(456.73 KiB) Downloaded 813 times
Svengali
Posts: 1570
Joined: 28 Dec 2006, 10:08

Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by Svengali »

I've had this problem with GIF89a output in TVPaint for years (white noise in the last or several of the last frames), but its intermittent depending on the imagery. For a long time I attributed it to my ACDSee image manager because I have other GIF players which somehow suppress the white noise visible in ACDSee playback.

In the end, I think the problem comes from TVPaint's GIF palette reduction process which determines the best 256 colors for the GIF images based on the full color palette for all frames. Once generated the best 256 are substituted in the GIF, the black pixels in the last frame (or frames) aren't properly reduced... instead, converted to white or more likely, improperly converted to transparent letting the white background show through.

I've had some luck by re-importing the GIF back into a clip, then change all 0,0,0 pixels to 1,1,1 pixels, then re-saving out to a new GIF. which makes sense if 0,0,0 pixels are supposedly transparent?

INFO on GIF (Graphics interchange Format 87a and 89a)
TVP Pro 11.0.10-64bit Win10 - 64GB ram -2TB HHD - 256GB SSD - Wacom Cintiq 16, driver 6.3.41-1
Android Tablet: rel. 11, Samsung Galaxy Note10.1 - 32GB with microSD 32GB
Android Tablet: rel. 11.5, Samsung Galaxy Tab S7plus - 128GB with microSD 64GB
acrookedheart
Posts: 124
Joined: 02 Apr 2017, 01:47
Contact:

Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by acrookedheart »

It doesn't matter if it's a GIF or PNG.
Svengali
Posts: 1570
Joined: 28 Dec 2006, 10:08

Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by Svengali »

Hmm. In my case I've only noticed the noise problem in GIFs and when present, always on the final frames, after export. For me it is a product of Optical Flow distortion so I guess it's two different things...

sven
TVP Pro 11.0.10-64bit Win10 - 64GB ram -2TB HHD - 256GB SSD - Wacom Cintiq 16, driver 6.3.41-1
Android Tablet: rel. 11, Samsung Galaxy Note10.1 - 32GB with microSD 32GB
Android Tablet: rel. 11.5, Samsung Galaxy Tab S7plus - 128GB with microSD 64GB
User avatar
Peter Wassink
Posts: 4429
Joined: 17 Feb 2006, 15:38
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by Peter Wassink »

I believe its not palette nor gif related.

The wrapping grid distortion drops pixels, which creates holes.
I suspect the wrapping grid algorithm needs an overhaul for this to be fixed,
So probably don't expect an improvement fast.
Peter Wassink - 2D animator
• PC: Win11/64 Pro - AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core - 64Gb RAM
• laptop: Win10/64 Pro - i7-4600@2.1 GHz - 16Gb RAM
acrookedheart
Posts: 124
Joined: 02 Apr 2017, 01:47
Contact:

Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by acrookedheart »

Peter Wassink wrote: 29 Mar 2021, 10:45 I believe its not palette nor gif related.

The wrapping grid distortion drops pixels, which creates holes.
I suspect the wrapping grid algorithm needs an overhaul for this to be fixed,
So probably don't expect an improvement fast.
Damn, It's such a cool tool that I hate not being able to use it on larger sequences.
User avatar
Peter Wassink
Posts: 4429
Joined: 17 Feb 2006, 15:38
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by Peter Wassink »

its also weirdly random and funny that some holes don't move!?

here i highlighted the 1 pixel holes using the 'border' FX:
warpholes.gif
Peter Wassink - 2D animator
• PC: Win11/64 Pro - AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core - 64Gb RAM
• laptop: Win10/64 Pro - i7-4600@2.1 GHz - 16Gb RAM
Svengali
Posts: 1570
Joined: 28 Dec 2006, 10:08

Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by Svengali »

Nice catch Peter.
Other clues...
In the first GIF named truckbed? note that some of the artifacts seem to be organized in a kind of hooked line and maintain relative position as they scale up...
Makes me think there is residual noise in some processing buffer that doesn't get properly cleared...
Also reminds me in a way of temporary "ghostlines" that can be toggled on and off by inverting their values: here's part of a GEORGE command concerning the protocol order of operations for that:

COPIED FROM MIKE'S GEORGE COMMAND LIST:

tv_ghostline 0|1 iX1 iY1 iX2 iY2

[WARNING]
if tv_ghostline is used while a MetaFunction is active (in a plugin), be sure to call it AFTER the Refresh() function from PIKeys

Draw or erase a temporary line on the screen

[PARAMETERS]
0|1 enum The mode
_ 0: draw
_ 1: erase
iX1 iY1 double double The begin point of the line
iX2 iY2 double double The end point of the line

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no clue about how the FX HUD lines work, but I mention this because the superimposed green control lines in the Distortion Warp Grid interface overlay are sort of similar to those kind of "ghostlines"... (maybe this might be something the programmers could look at.)

sven
TVP Pro 11.0.10-64bit Win10 - 64GB ram -2TB HHD - 256GB SSD - Wacom Cintiq 16, driver 6.3.41-1
Android Tablet: rel. 11, Samsung Galaxy Note10.1 - 32GB with microSD 32GB
Android Tablet: rel. 11.5, Samsung Galaxy Tab S7plus - 128GB with microSD 64GB
User avatar
D.T. Nethery
Posts: 4225
Joined: 27 Sep 2006, 19:19

Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by D.T. Nethery »

Bumping this up.

(I noticed this topic has a green checkmark which signifies “solved”, but I don’t believe this problem has been solved.)

Will this issue with the Warp Grid generating artifacts (holes) ever be fixed ? I've been using the Warp Grid extensively on a recent project and it is a real pain to have to go back and fill in those annoying little 1-pixel holes (but it must be done ,because otherwise they will visibly chatter on screen).

Animator, TVPaint Beta-Tester, Animation Educator and Consultant.
MacOS 12.7.1 Monterey , Mac Mini (2018) , 3.2 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i7,
16 GB RAM , TVPaint PRO 11.7.1 - 64bit , Wacom Cintiq 21UX 2nd Gen.
,Wacom Intuos Pro 5 , Wacom driver version 6.3.39-1
acrookedheart
Posts: 124
Joined: 02 Apr 2017, 01:47
Contact:

Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by acrookedheart »

D.T. Nethery wrote: 11 Dec 2022, 17:14 Bumping this up.

(I noticed this topic has a green checkmark which signifies “solved”, but I don’t believe this problem has been solved.)

Will this issue with the Warp Grid generating artifacts (holes) ever be fixed ? I've been using the Warp Grid extensively on a recent project and it is a real pain to have to go back and fill in those annoying little 1-pixel holes (but it must be done ,because otherwise they will visibly chatter on screen).
Thanks for bumping. It is definitely a pain to have to go back and fix it. Especially when the errors are in tight spots.
User avatar
jonathan_tvpaint
Site Admin
Posts: 100
Joined: 17 Mar 2022, 12:32
Location: France (Metz)

Re: Warp grid artifcating

Post by jonathan_tvpaint »

Hi all,

i tried to reproduce the issue but without success. I think it can be difficult to reproduce for us because it depends to particular configuration ( source image, resolution, grid size, ...). So i you succeed to reproduce it, don't hesitate to share with us the project if it is possible with screenshot of fx parameters.
It will give us the maximum chances to be able to reproduce the issue in our side.

Thanks a lot
Post Reply